There are few researchers on topics at the fringes of science that I respect more than Dr Bruce Greyson, who has spent more than four decades investigating the near-death experience (NDE) phenomenon. Throughout that time he has kept a level head, sticking to science and keeping a skeptical mindset, while always remaining open to the idea that NDEs could be evidence for consciousness surviving physical death. And perhaps more importantly, as a physician he has always kept the experiencer, and how the NDE has affected them, front and centre in his research.
So it was a real pleasure to see Greyson interviewed recently on The Tim Ferriss Show, a super-popular podcast with a host that mixes having an open mind with the ability to also ask probing questions (video embedded below for convenience). And it was also gratifying – and impressive – to see that, for many of the questions asked by host Tim Ferriss during their 95 minute chat, Greyson was able to respond with evidence from a study he himself had conducted on that very aspect of the experience.
Overall, Dr Greyson says his long experience in this field has led him to doubt the materialist paradigm that dominates scientific discourse in the present day.
I started out as a materialist skeptic. After 50 years, I’m still skeptical, but I’m no longer a materialist. I think that’s a dead end when it comes to explaining near-death experiences and other phenomena like this.
He also made clear in his answers that, while the philosophical question of what NDEs mean for our conception of ‘reality’ and whether there is something beyond death fascinates him, he is also deeply moved by how it affects experiencers, and that – regardless of what you think NDEs are or mean – attention must be given to that aspect. “These experiences have profound effects on the people who have them – as a psychiatrist I want to understand that, and help them deal with those effects if they need help with it,” he tells Ferriss. “So I think it’s it’s irresponsible to just ignore it and say it doesn’t exist.”
Beyond that though, there were numerous fascinating moments in the interview, such as Greyson’s suggestion that a genetic study could be done of near-death experiencers, to see if there is some marker that could help predict who would have one. After discussing a twin study that he is involved with that has access to genetic information, he noted that:
It makes me wonder about the genetics that goes into having a near-death experience. You know, we’ve been studying what’s going on in the brain, what’s going on in the heart and lungs – [but] we haven’t scratched the surface of what’s going on in your genes that may make you more likely to have a near-death experience. Now we know that when their hearts stop between 10 and 20% of people will have a near-death experience, and we haven’t found any way of predicting who’s going to have one or not. But maybe the answer is in the genes – so I think it’s worth doing a genetic study of people who have NDE experiences and those who don’t.
That’s just one of a number of interesting threads of conversation that Greyson and Ferriss cover – I recommend watching the whole thing via the video above, or alternatively you can check out the chapter list below if you just want to look at certain segments:
[00:00] Preview
[02:02] Dr. Greyson’s scientific upbringing and his attraction to psychiatry.
[05:15] Dr. Greyson’s first encounter with a near-death experience (NDE) that changed everything.
[12:21] Development of the NDE scale and its characteristics.
[16:59] Challenges in studying NDEs and distinguishing genuine experiences.
[18:37] Examples of NDEs and out-of-body experiences verified by third parties.
[27:28] Attempts to explain NDEs through biological mechanisms.
[32:44] Does the manner of someone’s misadventure have a bearing on their NDE?
[34:40] Prevalence and consistency of NDEs across cultures and time.
[38:50] How new tools may deliver scientifically viable NDE evidence.
[41:21] Promissory materialism.
[43:45] Child vs. adult NDEs.
[44:50] Studying brain activity during NDEs.
[50:46] What’s happening when people report seeing dead loved ones during NDEs?
[52:20] What can research tell us about the practical applications of NDEs?
[55:40] Are there reliable ways to simulate an NDE-like state?
[59:30] What distinguishes a true out-of-body experience?
[01:05:25] Mind vs. brain.
[01:10:48] Dr. Greyson’s career challenges and motivations for studying NDEs when few would.
[01:14:00] Can studying twins find a genetic component to NDE susceptibility?
[01:18:09] The difficulties of replicating out-of-body experiences in controlled settings.
[01:23:05] The mysteries of terminal lucidity phenomenon.
[01:25:30] The concept of time in NDEs.
[01:27:38] Auditory hallucinations after NDEs.
[01:29:32] Researchers who demonstrate open-mindedness and rigorous skepticism in NDE studies.
[01:31:24] The irreducible mind concept.
[01:32:27] Want to read Dr. Greyson’s books? Start with After.
[01:33:13] Common characteristics and after-effects of NDEs.
[01:34:05] Parting thoughts.
