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Bosnian Pyramid Redux

Filip Coppens’ new book, titled The New Pyramid Age (Amazon US and UK), is now available. As part of his research he recently traveled to Bosnia to check out the alleged Bosnian Pyramid. Surprisingly (given that our good friend, geologist Robert Schoch, last year concluded the ‘pyramid’ was a natural formation), Filip (as well as Bosnian officialdom) is resurrecting the claim that the ‘Bosnian Pyramid’ is artificial:

In 2006, a limited amount of work had been carried out, and I can understand why some geologists – those without an agenda or an axe to grind – spoke out for the natural origins of the site. But more recent visitors – tourists and experts alike – are confronted with an ever growing body of evidence, which is stretching the possibility of everything being “freaks of nature” to and beyond the breaking point. Hence, the Russian academic and geophysicist Prof. Dr. Oleg Khavroshkin is typical of those who now come and conclude that “the structures in Visoko are not natural formations”.

It is also why on July 9, 2007, members of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, headed by Premier Nedzad Brankovic, paid a visit to the various sites and unanimously gave their full support to the foundation and its research project. It means that from 2008 onwards, the foundation will be allowed access to state funding; so far, the work has been largely carried out by private donations and sponsorship – and good will.

Filip’s article has some good photographs, as well as plenty of information about the site. However, before anyone gets ahead of themselves, it’s worth pointing out that Robert Schoch – commenting on these new developments to me in an email – says that in his opinion “anyone who has some geological background can figure out from the photographs in his article, and [the facts] he relates, that the so-called Bosnian pyramids are natural.” For more information about Robert’s own investigation on site, see this article on his new website, and/or our exclusive news feature in Sub Rosa Issue 6.

In any case though, Filip’s upcoming book looks very interesting – it’s been a while since pyramids around the world were a ‘hot topic’ here on TDG (ironically, the last time was probably when discussing Robert Schoch’s book Voyages of the Pyramid Builders) – and you can read about more of the topics in The New Pyramid Age on Filip’s website, where there are a number of articles related to the subject matter.

Editor
  1. I dunno…
    Those bosnian guys might spend years working to uncover these supposed pymarids (and really, all those colorful names they came up with does not help one bit to gain credibility). There might be something there, and God knows there are a couple of pyramids down in places like Peru who really look like big piles of hardened mud (which technically speaking, it’s EXACTLY what they are) and if you look at aerial photos of them no one in their right mind would think those mounts are man-made.

    But there’s a big difference.

    The difference is man-made REMAINS: On Peru we can be certain those are pyramids because there are pieces of broken pottery, jewels, human skulls and even complete mummies. Only if they find something like that in Bosnia could they make a case on their favor.

    Who knows, maybe they’ll get lucky.

    —–
    It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
    It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

    Red Pill Junkie

    1. colorful names
      [quote=red pill junkie]and really, all those colorful names they came up with does not help one bit to gain credibility.

      Red Pill Junkie[/quote]

      colorful names? Talk for yourself—>Red Pill Junkie.

  2. Hi Greg, we’ll have another
    Hi Greg, we’ll have another interview with Sam coming up in the next couple of weeks at Astraea. Sam informed me that he is currently entertaining a team from Egypt who have come to do an evaluation of the site. I’ll let you known when it’s up.

    Also we have just launched a new interview with Professor Michael E. Jones about his book “The End of Roman Britain.”

    Best, Steve
    Astraea Magazine
    http://www.astraeamagazine.com

  3. Aww come on! 🙂
    Seriousy, I’m not here to find any credibility whatsoever. I am no one. I am NOTHING.

    I’m just here because I have a lot of questions and an insatiable curiosity.

    —–
    It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
    It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

    Red Pill Junkie

      1. thank you Mr. North 🙂
        But I don’t really regard Hyperboreal comment as criticism, but as a good spirited joke. I think we shold never take ourselves too seriosly anyway.

        That’s one of the things I hate the most about the Gospels, BTW. They NEVER show Jesus joking or laughing! Big mistake as far as I know. I once read something like “God the Father laughed and spawned The Son; the both laughed and spawned the Holy Ghost; the three of them laughed and gave birth to the Universe”. I think there’s a great deal of truth in that.

        —–
        It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
        It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

        Red Pill Junkie

    1. Nothing?
      [quote=red pill junkie]Seriousy, I’m not here to find any credibility whatsoever. I am no one. I am NOTHING.[/quote]

      ‘Everybody Is Unique’… Including You!

      Do you remind yourself?

      Be blessed,
      Hyperborean

      1. Have to disagree with youm RPJ
        For someone who thinks they are ‘nothing’ you post a lot of interesting and pertinent comments here! Don’t sell yourself short and please keep posting.

        Regards, Kathrinn

          1. Yes you are OK Red and Vratnica Bosnia
            I have read your postings Red and I think you have been very gracious in your remarks even when you were attacked. You were nice about it. I usually ignore them. They usually go away when they have no feedback. They are not here to contribute. You are in the club Red…..

            Hey, to get back on topic, I read that article…. I did not quite understand it, it read like Phillip Coppen is promoting the Bosnian Pyramids???Is that right?

            This is a very clever….When they speak about the stones, like the ones at the Vratnica site, (those big stones there in a photograph)those were not there when I was there, the ground had not been uncovered on that hill, only partially and what was being unveiled and held as man made at the time was bedrock, sedimentary grade…you could see the wave marks in it, and they carried through to the next stone, the veins and everything, all markings were in continuity. There was nothing more there at the time except a lot of odd shaped fossils of burrowing animals that lived in water. The angle of the photo I saw is taken to see the horizontal width of the stones and their vertical height, but, not their detail. They could be another layer of thick bedrock. It would be nice if good photos were posted instead of the “Guess what this is?” brand.

            The shape of it is suggestive of a mound, however, it is not a pyramid and the words have been carefully chosen I see to read as if the “New” Egyptian believed that the stones were not natural. Well, it does not state which stones he is talking about. Pyramid or Tumuli? We discussed the possibility of that hill being a tumuli or more correctly really, it is in the shape of a barrow…..it is not next to the hills they are carving up, it is in another section far off from there, outside of town. It is in the back yard of an old man’s house, we had coffee there, the family was very nice.

            There are huge stones like that in nature – that do break on a 90 degree angle, as that is their cleavage. I have rectangle stones all over in my yard. The lower you go in the pastures, and the strata is exposed, you can see how the stones change their shape and color. There are many large rectangle stones and then they start turning into squares, then into random shapes, they range from large to small and descend in that order. I have placed some of the smaller rectangle ones in my yard near some large standing stones and have used them as pavers. They work well for that. But, they are not man made tile or blocks or anything.

            I wish we could post pics here I would show you those rectangle stones.

            The tunnels??? OH no – not them — Dosen’t any one think it suspiscious that Semir’s father just happens to be a miner and a tunnel manufacturer? That was his big business in Bosnia.

            Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
            Circular Times
            http://www.robertschoch.net

          2. Thank you
            for your comments Dr M. Dowell, and you too Kathrinn. Right now I’m a red-faced pill junkie 🙂

            And also thank you for broadening our perspective on this issue with your comment. I would like to know, if I may, your take on Yonaguni, and if you know of a simmilar discovery that was made in Cuba aswell.

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          3. Doubtful. Credibility.
            [quote=Colette M. Dowell]I have read your postings Red and I think you have been very gracious in your remarks even when you were attacked. You were nice about it. I usually ignore them. They usually go away when they have no feedback. They are not here to contribute. You are in the club Red…..

            The tunnels??? OH no – not them — Dosen’t any one think it suspiscious that Semir’s father just happens to be a miner and a tunnel manufacturer? That was his big business in Bosnia.

            Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
            Circular Times
            http://www.robertschoch.net[/quote%5D

            Dear Dr. Colette,

            I’m sorry to contradict you but RPJ’s comment about colorful names is out-of-place in respectful debates. However, both of them, RPJ & Hyperborean solved the matter like gentlemans (my compliments).

            As for your critics towards the Bosnian people, I think they are out-of-place too. Would you kindly illuminate us about your degree’s / PhD titles / field of expertise / beliefs?

            Somewhere I’ve read you believe in UFO’s and you were abducted by them and you’ve had many contacts with them.

            Does it help you to build your credibility?

          4. Mr. Zetetic
            You may be right, I tend to abuse of a kind of tongue-in-cheek writing style so to speak, when writing my comments, mainly because I think we here at TDG want to entertain ourselves with discussions regarding our topics of interest, and also because it’s important not to take us very seriously.

            For my part, my comment was the result of my intrigue regarding the choice of names for the supposed Bosnian pyramids: Pyramid of the Sun, pyramid of the Moon and so forth. It’s obvious Mr. Osmanagic is a great admirer and student of ancient mexican civilizations, and the names are clear references to Teotihuacan. But I still think that the use of these same names for what he’s trying to discover is actually getting he opposite effect he aims for: to receive credibility from the scientific establishmet, who no-doubtedly look the other way when presented with his evidence without even taking a serious look at it. Why? because it’s one thing to accept the fact of the existence of a man-made pyramid, mastaba, burial mound or whatever we want to call it, and another to try to establish a direct link between whomever might have built these things and a culture that was located across and entire ocean, as the names Pyramid of the Sun & Moon indirectly imply. Add to that the date of 15,000 years they are claiming, and that’s something no scientists that values his tenure or academic position would dare to even consider. Science very rarely accept quantum jumps of paradigm shifts, but rather advances in tiny increments, much to the discontent of many of us.

            Personally I do think there might have been some form of communication between ancient civilizations that were separated by the atlantic and pacific oceans. If you have the chance I would invite you to visit the ruins of the olmec civilization at Tabasco, or even at the national Museum of Anthropology here in Mexico city (I would be more than glad to acompany you on a tour) where there some strange stone statues and inscriptions that bear a slight resemblance to egyptian o semitic etnic groups (not to mention the giant olmec heads with african features, that the anthropologists explain as the artistic use of jaguar-like features). There are a lot of things we don’t know, but the scientific establishment do not accept what they perceive as direct assaults of enthusiastic visionaries; not even when they do hit the jackpot, like when Schliemann dared to believe in Homer and found the mythic city of Troy.

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          5. Yonaguni and other
            Hello,

            What I know of Yonaguni is from when John West and Robert went there with Graham and Santha. John came back and told me there was nothing there, just natural stones. Robert had gone under and looked at them. He said they were natural. I have many photographs of them. I have looked at the photos, but, really they are hard to see what is what. Large blocks of stone like that can erode and break off from currents in the water with right angles. It depends too on their composition. I am open minded about Yonaguni. Why? Because I know that the man ( I forget his name) who scuba dives over there all of the time must know more about them than any one. He has seen more of the blocks and the area in question than any one else. He also knows the islands really well and what they have on land as far as ruins. There are ruins of buildings that are similar in design. However that does not mean either that the underwater stones are the same. I do not think there has been enough mainstream scientists over there to really take a look. On the other hand, maybe there has not been because there is nothing there and they know it, so do not waste their time. I feel that one day in the future there will be more evidence to really understand what is going on under there. Right now, I think to make a statement either way is maybe premature. Why? Because maybe the areas that were looked at under water are just natural, but, near by there may be some ruins that go unnoticed because they look the same as the natural stones. But, then again, there is much sea lichen growth on them too that it is very difficult to really see any tools marks if there are any . So, I think it is 50 – 50, I am open minded.

            On Cuba, I have read articles just like every one else. I have not been there, neither has Robert, so I do not have pictures or first/second hand knowledge. I have read about some very deep areas over there that are suggestive of ancient ruins. I know some Russian film producers who wanted to go down very deep and do some filming on some areas. It never happened due to the cost and the type of lighting needed to be able to see properly at that depth.

            I wonder about Atlantis at times. I have read many books since I was a child. All of them read differently though. Some of my favorites are from James Churchward of Mu. I like those best I think, but, do not take them so seriously now that I am older – I was not even a teen ager when I started reading up on ancient lands. I think Plato wrote some interesting text and started an A phenomenon. Maybe there was civilization, but maybe spread out over the globe and not just in one dense area. I do think there must have been a flood due to all of the myths and legends in so many various cultures that speak of almost the same thing. But, I do not know for sure about anything. I am in the dark as every one, no one really knows.

            As for the Sphinx, well, that is a tuff call because that has never been proven that it is older than more than just predynastic times. Colin Reader wrote a paper and he speaks about it being possibly built before predynastic times, but he is much younger than what Schoch has stated. There is much controversy there too. There are many geological studies out now about it, and not one of them hardly matches up to the other one. I think it is almost like they prove out to who ever’s theory it is that is trying to be proven because every one who studies it writes paper like they are correct. So, that is difficult too.

            When it was first remarked that is could be dated much older than what was traditionally thought, it started a wave of new authors writing books on ancient civilizations and findings because they were hanging their notions on the Sphinx being much older. But, it has been 18 years now and no one has proven anything. I do not think that the Sphinx is 36,000 years old. That is the new date it has been given by JAW from what I understand.

            No one has found a wine goblet from a civilization 15,000 years old with the letter A on it or M……..SO, I wonder too just like every one else.

            Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
            Circular Times
            http://www.robertschoch.net

          6. Why?
            [quote=red pill junkie]But I still think that the use of these same names for what he’s trying to discover is actually getting he opposite effect he aims for: to receive credibility from the scientific establishmet, who no-doubtedly look the other way when presented with his evidence without even taking a serious look at it. Why?
            [/quote]

            Dear RPJ,

            First of all thank you for your quote.

            In the second place your statement about the ‘scientific establishment’ tells only the half of the truth. I’m flattered and deeply moved.

            What do you mean with scientific establishment and which?

            If I remember well, according to old and the latest news, the leading experts in the field of pyramid research confirmed without any doubt the existence of pyramids in Bosnia.

            Read here: http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1118#10864

            We have six leading Egyptian experts (egyptologists and geologists) who confirmed that the structures are pyramids. And please let me include Prof. Oleg B. Khavroshkin, one of the biggest world experts in earth and planetary sciences, who declared,

            “The structures in Visoko are not natural formations.”

            Read here: http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1083#10717

            We have also many leading Bosnian experts in the field of geology who agree with the ‘artificial’ theory.

            Read here: http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1109#10816

            Are those world renown experts not enough qualified and credible for the cocky anglo-american ‘conservative scientific establishment’ (including the new-age scientists)???

            And why others should believe to ‘experts’ who claim to be abducted by aliens? Why the ‘UFO’ experts became the ‘battle-horse’ in the Bosnian pyramid controversy of what most people consider as “conservative scientific establishment”?

            Why those ‘scientists’ do not consider and respect the opinions of their collegues having a different opinion?

            Do they feel so ‘scientifically’ superior, without having ever visited the archaeological locations in Visoko?

            [quote]”There are a lot of things we don’t know, but the scientific establishment do not accept what they perceive as direct assaults of enthusiastic visionaries” [/quote]

            Without ‘the assault’ of visionaries people would still live in caverns. We have endless examples in history of that.

            with sympathy
            mr. zetetic

            P.S. I accept your kind invitation to be my guide 😉

            I hope Hyper won’t mind I’ve posted the links.

          7. Thank you both!
            Dr. M. Dowell and mr.zetetic for continuing this discussion, even though it has moved to the second page of TDG. But obviously we have nothing to worry since we can be certain the Visoko pyramids will be mentioned again and again in the future.

            Personally I think it’s great there are all the dissenting scientific voices that are on either side of the discussion, both on favor or disagreeing with the apparent artificial origin of these structures. This is how science and human knowledge advances (or at least the way it SHOULD), with people having different opinions that compels us to keep studying until we find solid evidence that either confirms or denies our assumptions. As I have discussed on other threads with Anthony North, it’s a shame that the current trend in science is an over-specialization between different fields and a lack of people who can observe a phenomenon with a kind of “holistic” view, that can step back and see the grand scheme of things; because of this it’s my impression that scientists tend to have a incredibly focused but rather narrow perspective when studying something in particular, and so a geologist will not take in account the observation of the anthropologist, and the ethnologist will not pay much attention to what the biologist has to say. Oh well…

            My wish still stands that hopefully they can find human remains that can confirm that this are indeed some form of pyramid. Then we can move on to the really interesting question: their purpose. I am really rooting toward an artificial origin here, although at the time I stil remain a little skeptical.

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          8. patience
            Also these pyramids or non-pyramids will not go anywhere. So there is lots of time to find out if they are natural formations or man-made. Or man-modified natural formations.

            —-
            Wanderer, kommst Du nach Liechtenstein – tritt nicht daneben, tritt mitten rein.

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