There is certainly more room for you to make some money using targeted advertising. It would help if you'd publish some stats as to the # of unique users you get per day.

I'd be more than happy to send a contribution to keep TDG alive. How could we go about it? I don't do Paypal.

Regards, Kathrinn

I also would love to participate in voluntary subscription month (excelent idea by the way) but i also think you should become an affiliate of www.absithe.bz. These guys give you 10-20% of the revenue that comes through the link they give you, as well as the same % of all purchases by any one that has ever used your link forever. sweet deal. i ordered some from them and it is high quality stuff. becoming an affiliate is free, and easy. you shouild check out their site.

P.S. thanks for all the time you have invested in this site, it really brightens my days.

Hi Greg

I think that everyone involved with running the Daily Grail do a great job and (among many other things) ensure my day is full of interest and my time at work bearable. If it helps I for one would be happy to make a yearly donation (say £10 pa) if it ensures that things keep running. I hope that many other people feel the same and that we can help here

All the Best

Paolo

http://www.spectrallight.com

Hey Guys, I'd be up for paying for the site. But i also agree with the targeted advertising.

I would definitely pay a subscription - round it up to a pound a month and no one would complain. There are plenty of premium content sites out there that run successfully.

Other ideas. You could probably find a specialist sales house out in Oz to sell ads for you. They'll take a cut but should be net positive to you. Also, you could become an embedded content channel in a bigger network for a fee (effectively sell your content) and let those guys figure out how to monetise (you might lose a bit of editorial control though).

To make proper money you probably need to write more books!

Indeed, thanks Greg, for creating something worth paying for and giving it away. Right. Where do I send my money?

I like the voluntary subscription month idea, give it a try in July, lead with it every day and see if that solves the problem. I am so sick and tired of advertising, I would not like to see TDG go that way.

Hi Greg

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by Paolo.

When Phenomena magazine took all your time and the Grail was stuck in your shed I missed the dear old rag so was delighted when it was dusted off and put back online to which I gave a loud Huzzah!

If you can come up with a quick and easy way to subscribe I'd definately be prepared to cough in your general direction.

P&R

John

I would pay a couple bucks a month.

I would gladly pay for this content, on one condition: more Poles please!

This site is priceless. No where else can you find this content in a concise, easy to read, format.

Since discovering The Daily Grail I've had countless hours of weird and priceless entertainment. I check the site out daily and have turned many of my friends on to this wonderful site as well - it’s definitely worth a few bucks. However, I never would have bothered with this site if a subscription were required (I no longer visit ufoarea.com since they began charging) – and new users may be scared away if you’re asking for money…something to think about….

However, since I’ve grown to appreciate this site so much I would be pleased to pay a monthly or yearly fee – hope you accept credit cards….

Maube you can start by accepting donations from users like me and see how that goes...

Keep up the great work…

Boo

why not targeted ads for some, donation love for others?

that way if people can tolerate the filth of advertising, their tolerance of those ads that generate income for you is their payment, otherwise, they can choose to donate some trite amount to your coffers, so that you can get on with keeping interesting.

just my 2c, hell if it meant keeping TDG up, i would donate and tolerate adds, just so you (greg) never have to leave your computer...

I'd say avoid the annoying adverts. . .there is a thing called a chip-in box that you can get and you can list a target amount of $ and it displays in real time how much has been donated so far. Perhaps consider getting a PO Box(equivalent thereof in Aus.) and provide that as a way for those who avoid electronic currency to still be able to support all of your efforts.

Not many sites I'd actually even consider giving money to, but this site is high quality and I can only see it getting better with the inflow of cash, not worse. You've got it down.

Also, start reppin' the brand! Get t-shirts made, bumper stickers, stickers, etc. Things like that to get the name out there and get the money in. Have different donation scales so that anyone can access the main content with no subscription, those within a certain lowere subscription bracket get access to even more stuff, and then those in a high subscription bracket get some extra goodies and throw ins not available to the general public! Create an Outer and an Inner Daily Grail Order. . .;=)

2 options:

a)PIMP My Grail!: It's either having Grailers pay for the content themselves, or having the advertising companies to take the bill by selling the Grailers' eyeballs to them. I know ads suck and are annoying but it's one of the ways many websites stay afloat.

b)Get in Bed with Bezzos: How about making a deal with Amazon, so that Grailers (by previous consent when registering) receive in their mailbox a list of the books mentioned here at TDG over the last month or week? Or that they recommend books to Grailer based on the topics we deal here at the Grail? God knows there are worse kinds of spam out there.

And yeah, I would also consider merchandising. I sure would love to scream to the world that I'm a Grailer with a T-Shirt :-)

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

I show up here every day and would be happy to pay $1 a year.

I've had the same problems with my web presence. #1 return on Google for the search term, no less, and thousands of hours expended with no income. A friend of mine does make her living from running a web site, $60K a year sitting there. She uses a combination of affiliate programs, including both Google and Amazon, and there is a premium content area where subscribers pay $10 a year for access. I'm trying to set up my own site to work along those lines. It takes a few months to get things in place, and then another couple for the pipeline to fill. Be patient. Meanwhile, I will most certainly send a donation. Your site is much appreciated every day.

Greg,

There's always Google Adsense. I had a site a few years back and they did good by me.

Try Cafe Press for DG hats, T-shirts, and coffee mugs.

Just add a simple "Donate Here" button on the home page.

Do you take Paypal? It makes things easier for people.

I'll toss in a few buck for the cause, God knows it's worth it. I'm here every day I might as well help out.

Auction or sell a Daily Grail "Item O' The Month". Could be a unique DG hat, mouse pad, sasquatch figurine, DG brand Vegamite, anything strange, unique or different.

Just a few ideas.

Burgy.

I've been enjoying this site for several months now. There is not much like it, especially as a fortean in Oz, and would be more than happy to donate between $1 - 10 AU a year.

I think the idea of a PayPal donation jar that shows a running total (and desired minimum goal to reach for the year? month?) is great and easy to do. As far as I know, PayPal costs nothing to use for senders, and you don't even need an account.

For what it's worth, I think the idea of an inner, subscriber-only and outer, free Grail is a bad idea if you want to keep the current character of the project intact. But maybe you want to focus more on your books.

Speaking of books, instead of subscriber-only material, you could give subscribers a discount on the current Darklore or even the only opportunity to buy the next Darlkore as a h/c collectors item (say the first 100 and that way numbered numbered, perhaps even signed?)

Definitely would be happy to submit to any Amazon arrangement you would like to put in place. Merch is a good idea too, as long as it's not more trouble, time and money than it's worth for keeping the quality of the site.

been dg'ing for a good few years now.. even through the weird bit (forget the name.. :D )..

i'd happily donate.

I agree with everyone else. I would be more than happy to pay a yearly fee for this great site. It gives me something to think about everyday.

I have been reading this website for over eight years now. I, for one would be willing to pay a reasonable subscriber fee for access to this web site. I believe this to be a worthwhile cause. I hope everyone else feels the same.
Larry B

Hi Greg
It's a miracle to me how someone can maintain this website without this being a fulltime job. I check-in to the TDG site every day and have the luxury to get a fantastic overview about all my favourite subjects. I wouldn't want to miss it and would certainly contribute financially in order to keep things running. Thank's a lot and count me in.

Greg,
I can't begin to tell you how much the Grail has meant to me over the last few years. By all means adopt whatever moneymaking programs you can make work. Personally, I think heavy advertising with the option of an ad free annual subscription ($10 american?)would be good. Regardless, do whaterver it takes!!!

Weaz

How about a TDG store? Lots of people are interested in merchandise (see other posts). For real success, though, go beyond tees and coffee mugs. This is a unique place for some special goods. If there is a way to hookup with Amazon for selected esoterica, it would definitely have an appeal here. An outlet for artwork, maybe some posters, and links to TDG friendly artists for originals, if not an online gallery. Certainly some kind of trinkets will sell (just make sure they are quality).

Drop by the store. Buy a TDG coffee mug, some kind of alternative theme tee, a TOOL CD, a psychedelic poster, a copy of Darklore, some crystals, and one of those Girls of TDG calendars. I'm sure someone can think of more possibilities.

Its all quite clear (to me anyway), keep multiple options open and at only $1 a head it could easily work.
as above: donation button, volentary subscribers, merch, ad's etc.
as below: dont let the 'risk factor' put you off, i see a clear living to be made from this site (and affiliates). DONT underestimate the readership of this place, im sure 1/5th (20%) of readers would gladly give $5 a year then thats your $1 per person.

as i say keep multiple options open and youd be surprised, they add up prtty quick.but whatever you do dont underestimate tdg people to less than $1 a head!

how do i donate? i gots paypal to use ;)

.'. L V X .'.

You need to do a pledge drive like public radio.

Have a live feed on the page that puts up a running total and your goal and how much closer you are to your goal.

Have some sponsors -- Alex Tsakiris might be a possibility since he has funded various psi projects -- who will do "matching" grants, and offer up t-shirts and coffee mugs at various contribution levels.

This is what it is going to take in order to get real $ from your readers. Go for it Greg, this site is absolutely worth it. I can't promise much right now but I will contribute something once you get the pledge drive started. . .

Steve Pavlina, who has built monster readership for his Personal Development for Smart People blog in less than four years, wrote a long piece that's filled with ideas for monetizing an informational website.

I agree with several of the other comments suggesting Paypal or some other donation method - but I also think that it's important to not be shy about it. Pavlina asks for contributions at the close of every post, as well as placing a donation link prominently at the left column of every page. He also has spent a lot of time determining the best placement for his Google Ads and other revenue streams (which he continually monitors and refines). There are lots of ideas that are covered in the above link - it might require slight modifications to the layout to take full advantage, but there's really no reason that by giving some thought to the various ideas he covers in the linked article that TDG couldn't become a source of positive cash flow.

Another thing that you might consider is establishing a Daily Grail Recommended Books page coupled with the Amazon affiliate program. Ulrich Mohrhoff (editor of AntiMatters) has done this at This Quantum World. Clicking on the 'Quantum Books' link from his main page takes the reader to a dedicated Amazon page that allows him to make a small commission on all recommended books with no additional cost to his readers.

Hope this helps!

Greg,

I, like many dedicated visitors to your website, rely on that daily draught of wit, insight, controversy and speculative possibility that something other than our mundane, daily round of work, eat, sleep, work, etc., exists; we clamor for some evidence that the world is much more interesting, much more complex, than we could ever imagine.

I have found in your website a source for all that is "out there", an assortment of well-researched links and commentaries that give me hope--hope that what I believe, what I feel, is not just a desperate longing for something more, but a deep-seated conviction that the human condition is much grander than what we see--what we've learned.

I will gladly pay whatever subscription cost you set, donate what I can to keep you afloat (within my humble means). Just know this: you do a great service to all of us who want to know more, who want to know the truth.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Stephen Pool, New York

Run off my feet today, but just want to quickly say a huge thanks to all the comments so far! Sometimes you wonder whether anyone out there is getting something positive out of the website, and then you see a mass of appreciative comments like this and it just gives you a real boost. :)

On Amazon - we currently do earn Associates income from books we link to. However, it's been a long-standing policy that this income is received as gift certificates, and shared amongst the TDG news admins - who also do a boatload of work on this site for free.

Google Adsense probably saved the site from going under - I was very surprised to see the amount that a site like TDG could earn, although it's still just an expense-coverer. But that could probably be optimised a little to increase revenue.

Darklore at the moment holds the key I think (supplemented by other income streams such as merchandise). We've sold almost 1000 copies of #1, which was my initial goal. If we could push that figure up to 10,000 (which would be a huge effort, but certainly doable when you look at the readerships of Fate and Fortean Times), I'd be getting to a stage where I could move towards full-time work on the site (and the bonus is that it would also be giving a big financial boost to the 18 or so writers in each issue).

More individual comment replies when I get some spare time.

Kind regards,
Greg
-------------------------------------------
You monkeys only think you're running things

I have enjoyed coming to have a look see everyday on the Daily Grail almost since its inception ( except for the time of the Phenomena mag experiment).

I would be quite sad to see it disappear. I am however perplexed as to why Greg is not on - lets say 60K per year earnings from the site.

I have long looked to TDG as a shining example of the rare event of someone making a living from a web site without being involved in porn or spam. I was quite surprised to see that Greg is having to struggle with the whole thing.

However, after reading some wise comments as to how this situation can be fixed I feel sure that TDG will still be with us for many years to come. I am sure many people who have set up websites for commercial purposes have had a look at TDG as an example of how to do things professionally. It would be a small matter to leverage the advertising a bit more without changing the formula too much.

After having conducted research into the concept of human spirituality for 23 years now, I would only ever release my work onto TDG first. ( I am nearly ready to do that)

Thank you Greg for your efforts for all these years. All the best to you for the years to come.

I would be happy to contibute to this website. i am here almost everyday and would like to see it carry on...

I'm newly registered but have been a regular reader for a couple years now. I'd gladly pay ten bucks American a year for this site. Or even twelve. I don't have much to give, but fair is fair. And Paypal would be a necessity in my case- i'm not for signing up to a new online pay system for just one script.

Great idea, too, about putting in the "Easy Button"-style donation links. Maybe you could even arrange a per-item fee for the more detailed items, in case a non-subscriber finds a feature he likes and wants to pay a single dolar/pound/AUD etc for it...

Do you have an address for those who wish to send 'folding' money or cheques?

Needless to say, you have my support.

Regards

Nostra

I think it has been largely covered already but...

1. A donate button - Paypal make it easy and there are others

2. Merchandising - Cafepress are OK, I found a better range with Spreadshirt (vector graphics, wider range of colours, etc.)

3. Astores - very nifty, you can offer reading/watching/listening lists and break them down into categories - it is a handy service for folks, uses no bandwidth and could be a money spinner. You can also make an Amazon search box or simply make the Amazon IDs available - if people add that to the links then you get 5-10% back from Amazon and if people put their Xmas and birthday shopping through the list then they'd effectively getting Amazon to pay you say $20 right out of their pocket. Everyone wins!!

4. Collected volumes of Sub Rosa? Perhaps throwing in some hardcopy exclusives but even if you are giving it away online creating paper trades is a viable option - quite a few webcomics do fine and even comic companies are getting in on the action, e.g. Warren Ellis' FreakAngels.

Put together a range of revenue streams like that together (and keep reminding people from time to time) and income should scale with visitor numbers.

Badeye
Hi Greg, I personally dont like too much advertising. The amount present on DG is about right. I reckon the voluntary subscription idea is best. Merchandising would probably give you the shits after a while, and would definately take up too much of your time. I hope you can keep Darklore going. I pledge $50.00 for the voluntary sub., after all, that is just one third of a cup of coffee per week(Sydney prices)....I subscribe to www.astro.com on a yearly basis. The way they work it is, that the site has loads and loads of free access (changed daily, Charts and astrological predictions and stuff) but for the annual fee I get access to a whole lot more...It appears that alot of Grailers want DG to continue, and many of us are willing to pay what we can afford to see it continue.........

Oops, my last post implied that we pay $150.00 for a cup of coffee in Sydney..... I meant that I could afford to subscribe fifty bucks a year. Which would be small change per week. I hope you go with a subscription model.....B