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China needs to get itself out of Tibet and leave folks alone. Long ago this land of Tibet was peace loving and gave no one nation any trouble. Then the heavy hand of China came out and slapped folks around. We do not need this from a nation that could become a great world leader in many fields. China has so much going for it but It does not need to return to the digression of its communistic past. There are other ways to win and it all really can be accomplished by giving Tibet back to its people. If I were in control of China, that is exactly what I would do. It would be so unexpected by the world that enemies would be gushing with accolades and praise if such a turn about would come. I would start a program right now getting all of this orchestrated with media and everyone reverting to the joy of such an about face. I would sell the world on the New China that truly has so much to sell and give the entire world. In 100 years China could be the cultural and educational leader of a new earth. We need its creativity and calm demeanor. Wake up China...you will need us all in the future because your population will be the determining factor of your demise rather than you being a bully now just to show off.
Question:
If you were the leader of America —President, Emperor, King, your pick— would you give back California and Texas to their original owners, the mexicans?
And after you recover from the shock this idiotic question provoked in you, take into account that maybe the chinese feel EXACTLY the same way about Tibet. They feel it is rightfully a part of China.
Obviously I do agree with you, China should give at least full autonomy to the region of Tibet, if not complete independence. But I also think that before the chinese invasion, the tibetan culture was not as great and idillic as we westerners would like to think. Tibet was a feudal government with the monks of top of the pyramid. Their reluctance to accept foreigners & new ideas was one of the reasons they were so easily dominated by the modern chinese war machine.
And it even appears that they entertaines for a little while the possibility of an alliance with the axis power during WWII, at least to attain leverage agains the chinese threat.
Hopefully, the chinese will understand that freeing Tibet is in THEIR best interest, if they really want to become a modern super-power. And after that there's a whole list of things they have to improve, like civil liberties and improving the lives of farmers for starters.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
I'm not so optimistic
Seeing how forceful the Chinese government has been since the lat 1940s, always emphasizing that "stability" is most important - I am starting to believe that they are not just paranoid. They may have real problems keeping the country together, the a dam breaks somewhere, so to speak.
Speaking about speaking - the very forceful suppression of speech disagreeing with the elite is their real Achilles' heel.
I think the leadership is very afraid of their own people. The forcefulness of control could well be an indication of that.
Now of course, some people can come and say that freedom of speech is restricted in the USA, Canada, Germany, Mexico, or whatever their favourite whipping-country is. But this all pales in comparison to China.
Incidentally, does anyone know how to find out if a particular site is banned in a particular country?
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if everything is under control, you are not going fast enough (Mario Andretti)
I agree completely
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people"
I think that one way to find out if a site is banned, is to use the chinese version of Google.
We have talked about this in the past. The problem with China is that it is too damn big. Only through repression and force can they keep the people united and stable.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
small technical problem
A small problem, for me, with using the chinese version of google is that I can't read or write chinese. I can tell that my own website is there, but that's not surprising. It has little traffic, and nothing political.
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if everything is under control, you are not going fast enough (Mario Andretti)
another point
Perhaps a point even more important that freedom of speech is freedom to listen.
There are some kinds of speech that are limited for half way acceptable reason. Yelling "fire" in a crowded room, incitement to violence. Libel, slander, and defamation.
What is more worrying is not being allowed to know that people are saying these unacceptable things.
What is worse - someone telling lies about you, or you not knowing that they do this?
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if everything is under control, you are not going fast enough (Mario Andretti)
the old philosophy problem, right?
If a tree falls in a forest and no one listens...
But here is not that no one listens, t's that some guys are forcefully covering the ears of some folks!
I've read that, like it or not, Beijing is going to have to accept opening the Internet during the games. Not only in benefit of all the journalists, but also of all the tourists and visitors who would probably want to enter any cibercafe and check their e-mail.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
Not to Worry
RealityTest isn't banned in China and is utterly subversive, even though this isn't obvious to the casual visitor.
Unfortunately, I can't provide a precise estimate of how long it will be before the effects fully take hold; guesses range from fifty years to two centuries -- there are just too many variables to calibrate this accurately, without even thinking about probable realities (and thus multiple futures).
The site is designed to initiate certain processes in the unconscious and on a conscious level. Together, these serve to open a particular set of neural pathways that no government can long withstand.
Regards
Bill I.
No — I would return Mexico to the United States
Mexico is a nation that needs a government. It is controlled by its criminals and the Drug Kings. If we would have kept that nation when we had a chance it would be a nice place to visit or live, but no...it is pure hell at present. The United States fought a war over Mexico who was trying to claim parts of the United States. We won and now we lose. But yes, I would give it back to the Mexicans and move to Australia.
I suggest you are using informal fallacy to sell your point.
of course
I suggest you are using informal fallacy to sell your point.
Yes, of course. It was an extreme example to sell my point :-)
And for the record, the american invasion we suffered was a little more complicated than that. Although it did start with a portion of our territory wanting its independence from the Mexican Republic: Texas.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
Respect, not freedom
It's not about allowing Tibet to separate from China and become autonomous, it's about respecting human rights. If China respects Tibetan culture and respects human rights, then all is well.
I'm fighting for human rights and respect for Tibet, not freedom.
Would that Texas and its people were a Nation unto itself...
Oh Texas my Texas...I love that old state. It was somewhat large once with portions of New Mexico, Oklahoma, Coloradeo, and I think Idaho and montanta. Anyway, I took Texas History some 50 years ago and I am forgetting everything I once knew. It is what it is.