There was an interesting constitutional judgement in Germany. Sorry, all the links go to stuff in German. I try to summarize, but of course people should check themselves.
This is about the government being allowed to observe the movements and activities of everyone. Suspect or no suspect, just routine observation. The German Verfassungsgericht, or federal constitutional court, has said that No, the government cannot do that. No Orwellian observation, or so the court says.
The Sueddeutsche Zeitung, a respected German newspaper from Munich, reports about a case where local or state police register the license plate numbers of everyone who travels on some roads. And they keep records of that. So if you were on some some particular road, at some particular time, they have a record of that. This was challenged in the constitutional court, and the judges said no the police can't do that. Not without probable cause.
The justification for this is, of course, that they are only looking for criminals and especially for terrorists. Innocent people have nothing to hide, right?
But I submit, respectfully, that this argument that innocent people have nothing to fear from the state assumes one critical factor. It assumes that the state is innocent.
There is a story in the Bible, about God looking for just a few innocent people in Sodom and Gomorrah. Didn't find any.
Let's turn this aroung - how my just a few innocent states, that have never acted unjustly against innocent citizens.
Go ahead, tell me about two innocent governments. Or one.
Big Brother in Europe
There has been several links to news regarding the alarming escalation of citizen surveillance in Europe. Not surprisingly, Britain ranks #1 among the list of governments that have more surveillance control over its people. CCTV cameras, cel phone calls screening, aerial drones capable of tagging suspects with a special marking liquid... George Orwell was a wishful thinker.
I suppose Germany and its government is all too aware of the dangers of providing too much power to police forces, based on its modern history. No politican wants to be remembered in the annals of history as the one who reinstates a second Gestapo. There's also the memory of KGB's grip over the people of the former Eastern Germany, of course.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
indeed
But understand, Germany is still among the worst offenders, this judgement not withstanding. They should know better, sure. But most of the time, the population there falls into the same trap, assuming that the state is just and innocent. When not so long ago, the Nazi state and the Communist state were among the most guilty and injust in history.
That is why I left that country.
But perhaps there is hope.
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wherever you go, there you are
There is always hope
If the memory is not lost, and people keep vigilant for the signs that announce history is about to repeat again.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
Britain
Britain is the CCTV capital of the world. We've swallowed it by believing it would help fight crime. Well, I didn't.
The police want a DNA database with everyone on it. At present there are 100,000 kids on it, DNA taken as suspects, but cleared. Data base remains.
There's been controversy about biometric ID cards. The government wanted to introduce it - compulsory. Much opposition. They seemed to backtrack. It will not be compulsory. They've just announced foreigners living here will have to have one. After all, they're not British. Oh, and airport personnel - after all, they're at the entry points. Easing it in slowly, then. How long before you won't be able to exist without one?
Compulsory through the back door.
It works like this.
How about the most incidious? It isn't fair that everyone has to pay the same road tax dependent on their car category. Better that people pay for road use. How to do that? Meter you through satellite detection.
Now compare that to the German proposal. They're being honest - having a debate. Not here. Not now. Do it by claiming it's something else.
Germany once had dictators with jackboots. We've got dictators with jack-slippers.
They won't win. But totalitarianism is coming to Britain. We're leading the world.
Again!
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I'm fanatical about moderation
Anthony North
you guys have the power to end it
you have 4 years until the eyes of the world turn to England, and London, for the 2012 Olimpics.
Ample time to denounce and criticize these attempts to enforce a "velvet police state".
Either that, or start getting used to walk the streets with a Guy Fawkes' mask on... to avoid camera detection of course :-)
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
It's beginning
It's beginning to happen in the politico blogs, of which I contribute voluminous comments. But the problem is, people think the economy is working, so they don't get restless.
There are rumours of a recession. I think it is inevitable - eventually. THEN people will wake up. THEN things will change.
But the most important point about all this is that technology is such that it allows it to happen; and politics has become management, singing the tune of the multi-nats, who control the economy and thus the politicans.
And as we know, Big Biz would like everything to work like a machine.
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I'm fanatical about moderation
Anthony North
Your Point Is Very Well Taken, And...
I can't name a single innocent Nation-State. But, the situation that terrorists have put us in requires a lesser of two evils perspective in my opinion. So, I think that the police need to be overly observant in the present situation; because, in my opinion, it's a damned if they do, and potentially, more damned if they don't situation. But, I don't claim to have the answer. In fact, I'm not sure that there is a clear answer in the present world situation.
Anyway, how have you been doing? It's been a while.
What do you think?
cnnek
{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}