Back to the 'Hall of Records'
Posted by Greg at 00:52, 19 Jan 2008Filip Coppens has some interesting news on his website, citing the investigations of Egyptian scientists who claim to have identified underground locations on the Giza Plateau that may conceal "undisclosed relics, of high value". In February 2006, Abbas Mohamed Abbas surveyed parts of the Giza plateau with GPR technology, explicitly to "investigate deep-wide parts of the plateau to reveal any hidden shafts or tunnels throughout the studied sectors."
The report of this work appears in the NRIAG Journal of Geophysics:
Abbas and colleagues state that the cavities are at a fairly deep level, ranging from 12 to 25 metres below the surface, which is, of course, conform to e.g. the Osiris Shaft. Abbas also states that "The cave-like features could be ascribed to a tunnel section of at least 3 to 5 m width […] it is like a void in the limestone rock." They conclude: "we can presume the existence of a momentous diversity of archaeological structures at the Pyramids plateau which remain, as yet, unexposed. These structures could be a linked net of tunnels and shafts that may well lead to precious tombs."
It is an enigmatic statement to make, and is either Abbas’ wording to guarantee that future funding is received, or that he has additional data, not included in the report, that warrants his optimism. Since the completion of the survey, and the report, the Polish team has asked for permission to excavate at the Gizeh plateau in those areas where the ground scans have revealed cavities. So far, these proposals have been rejected.
Head over to Filip's website for full details.
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Comments
1 May 2004
5 hours 18 min
I am confused! According to an old tv show entitled ‘Mysteries of the Pyramid’, Mark Lehner shows the viewer around the passageways, shafts and tombs that lie under the Giza Plateau. It appears in the show that these are closed and not well known to the public, but apparently widely known to Egyptologists.
So if there is a complex system of tunnels, shafts and tombs under the Giza Plateau, why are people searching for them? Surely they just have to ask Mark Lehner for the way in…
The following is an extract of the commentary for this section of the show – and the video footage is very interesting.
“Mysteries of the Pyramid” - Mark Lehner is filmed leading the way into a maze of passages under the Giza plateau.
…Below the Giza Plateau, a maze can be found. A maze in the form of tunnels that twist and turn and seemingly never end- And Mark Lehner is one of the few people who know where those paths turn for one is never sure what is just around the corner - a wall - a passage - or an empty sarcophagus…
… There's a lot of charcoal in there; a lot of charred bones…
… Through this narrow passageway, we entered a secret chamber, where the life of Egypt is on display… This is a City of the Dead. A Necropolis inhabited by ghosts….
… It's a virtual labyrinth down here. This goes to yet another tomb chamber, and in that chamber there's another shaft going down several meters. There is another chamber at the bottom of that, that seems to go on forever… They honeycombed the whole plateau, putting themselves away for eternity.
Regards
Nostra
25 July 2006
2 years 2 weeks
Nostra,
Much of what you saw in that video were edited shots of known and documented shafts, shaft-tombs and mastaba’s, probably filmed within the area of the Western Cemetery. For example, if you reread the last paragraph in your post you will notice it fits the description of the water shaft’ or Osiris shaft as it’s now called. The voiceover or narrative would have been added in a studio after filming and designed to give a dramatic and mysterious atmosphere to the whole production. The film was produced more for entertainment than anything else; take it with a pinch of salt.
Cheers,
Chris Ogilvie-Herald
Co-author: Giza: The Truth
1 May 2004
1 min 58 sec
What, what? No mention (by Greg) of the part about the possible connection to the 'controversial' Hall of Records?
Check out the maps included in the article. The tunnels are between the Sphinx and the Great Pyramid -- just where Cayce said they'd be. ;-)
Kat
2 May 2004
6 hours 31 min
I saw Philip's article title and thought it would be about Zahi Hawass's dentist appointment. It's amazing his teeth haven't fallen out, he does so much talking. Which segues to the shafts in the Great Pyramid. It's bewildering that it has now been several years since Zahi Hawass said he was going to investigate the shafts further. If I remember right, he said it would be at the end of the year. To be fair, he didn't mention which year! For someone so passionate about Egyptology, he's very apathetic about the pyramid shafts and underground chambers. Very strange behaviour for a man who is at every major discovery in Egypt with hat on head and a television crew behind him, taking charge (and credit). Zahi is just one face of the SCA (albeit a very big face). How much pull do other officials of the SCA have?
1 May 2004
12 hours 8 min
old ZH stumbled onto something that didn't fit his theory of Egypt I believe. Hence the construction of " The great wall of Egypt".
When the wall is finnished and control of the plateau is firmly gained, work will commence on many mysterious anomalies. If we are ever allowed to know the findings, I believe it will turn history on it's head.
Lets hope the EGO doesn't prevent this from becomming public knowledge.
"Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told."
LRF.
30 April 2004
14 hours 16 min
What, what? No mention (by Greg) of the part about the possible connection to the 'controversial' Hall of Records?
I thought the title of the story was a pretty good 'mention'...
;)
Kind regards,
Greg
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You monkeys only think you're running things
2 May 2004
6 hours 31 min
Is it Filip or Philip? I've seen his name spelt both ways in several sources. Confuses me sometimes.
13 April 2007
1 year 38 weeks
I've seen my name spelt many ways. Sometimes Anthony, sometimes Antony, sometimes Tony, sometimes Idiot, sometimes Dick**** ...
You get the drift.
...
The balanced adult retains an inner child
Anthony North
1 May 2004
1 min 58 sec
Blind as a bat on some days. Sorry 'bout that.
Kat
30 April 2004
16 weeks 3 days
First, sorting out the enigma of my name ;-)
I was given the name Filip, and not the more popular "Philippe". My parents wanted my name to be pronounced "Philip", the Dutch rendering of this, is "Filip". However, confronting an English person with "Filip" is on par with Americans trying to pronounce Kylie Minogue. Hence, why I use Philip Coppens. At the time, it was also meant to distinguish me, a Belgian journalist writing about archaeology, from another Filip Coppens, a Belgian academic writing about archaeology. Today, there is a famous Philip Coppens, a chemist... who, him and I have found out, might be distantly related! Anyway...
Hawass: the Bosnian pyramid incident has shown that you can get ahead in Egyptology without needing Hawass. The Bosnian team approached the Egyptian government, bypassing Hawass, and it became clear no-one had bothered to tell him; so after he lashed out, claiming it was all false, and it was shown he was in error, he has been extremely silent about this. It shows that not everything passes through his hands, though pretty much everything inside of Egypt, does.
Hawass is an Egyptologist largely turned politician and several people are not happy with this, and are waiting for him to retire. This is unfortunate, and Egyptology is all the worse for it. I do appreciate what Hawass tried to do as an Egyptologist and his desire to reinterpret the pyramids, and I also think that his quite progressive stance has often shown to him a bad side of his colleagues. But what is lacking from Egyptology at present, is an openness, a willingness, to just excavate and see what will happen, rather than worrying about careers, theories, etc.
I know, world peace will arrive sooner than that... but simply because it won't happen, doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.
Philip
1 May 2004
12 hours 8 min
The Bosnian team approached the Egyptian government, bypassing Hawass, and it became clear no-one had bothered to tell him; so after he lashed out, claiming it was all false, and it was shown he was in error,
Does this mean you agree that the Bosnian pyramids are real?
Or have I missed something here?
"Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told."
LRF.
2 May 2004
6 hours 31 min
But no longer confused by Filip's name. ;-)
The Bosnian pyramid is mired in politics and rumours, unfortunately. Greg reported last December on Astraea Magazine's podcast with Dr Nabil Swelim, a well-credentialed Egyptologist who has said the Bosnian site is a pyramid. It amazes me that many alternative seekers are quick to believe this Egyptologist, but refuse to believe Zahi Hawass, Mark Lehner, et al.
Everything I hear about the Bosnian site is contradictory. Not to mention the former chief geologist of the Bosnian Pyramid Foundation made damaging allegations of fraud and unscientific conduct. I don't know who to trust -- and the little conspiracy theorist on my left shoulder is whispering in my ear. I do know however that Robert Schoch is trustworthy, and he has personally inspected the site (and was given the run around by BPF officials).
But if I believe Dr Swelim because he's a respected Egyptologist, then that makes me hypocritical for not believing Zahi Hawass and hundreds of other Egyptologists regarding the Giza pyramids.
I'll have to sit on the fence in Bosnia.
12 April 2007
4 min 5 sec
You're just human. And a more balanced and reasonable human than most I should add ;-)
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
25 July 2006
2 years 2 weeks
Having read through Abass et al’s report I would say that some survey results are intriguing but the majority unsurprising, particularly the cluster (3 to 8) in the vicinity of Khafre Causeway where there is a high incidence of known shaft tombs and other burials.
Compare fig.2 on Coppens’ site with the satellite image (click to expand) found at the following URL http://rawheaven.org/gallery/concept/pyr...
The use of speculative language within an academic paper is disappointing and I agree with Coppins that it goes ‘beyond the available evidence’. The results reveal anomalies in the bedrock and until physical examination proves otherwise that’s all they are. However, in their defence, Abass et al do end their paper by stating ‘The amount of work done to date is not a sufficient basis on which to form a definitive judgement on the delineated phenomena’.
Cheers,
Chris O-H
30 April 2004
16 weeks 3 days
As to Bosnia: at present, the majority of geologists are stating this is a genuine pyramid... who am I to argue with geologists - or at least those who keep up with the science?
Having visited the site, it seems to me the Pyramid of the Sun is definitely a pyramid, and the "Pyramid of the Moon" might not be a "pyramid" as we know it, but might hold some other interesting features. After all, the Sphinx isn't a pyramid either, but isn't without interest, is it?
This is an interesting valley, and definitely worth the research the Bosnian team are putting into this. But there is a LONG way to go before the final word will be said. At present (and with little to go on), I would say this is an unknown dimension of "Old Europe" (Marija Gimbutas).
Chris: good to see you are still around. I think I once (i.e. 2 year or so ago) ran into you again while you were coming in (and me out) of the Marriott in Regent's Park, but you were wearing a suit and a tie and didn't recognise you until I turned the corner ;-)
The story here, I think, is not whether there are cavities or not. We KNOW limestone has cavities. Full stop. I've been following this saga for some time, and had inside info, and rumours from the outside. There are 2 things here which I think are of interest:
1. why was I the first one to bring this out? has everyone given up on Gizeh, and if not, why did they not report on this earlier? This is a story that rose without Hawass pushing it...
2. why is Abbas going full-out on this? This is out of character for him. Though you rightfully say that in the end he reigns it back in, you do have to wonder why he "speculates" in the first place, and why the journal let him get away with it. This is an intelligent person, and he's not saying this in a live TV interview, but in a report he has had to time to prepare and submit when he was happy with what he had written.
Hence, you do wonder whether the "rumours" are right that Abbas knows more, and is intimating this to his audience.
25 July 2006
2 years 2 weeks
Hello Philip,
I’ve been lurking for a number of years and pop into TDG now and then to see if Greg is behaving himself :-) Yes, you could have seen me at the Marriot as I’ve been there a few times and it’s not far from my home. You should have come back and said hello.
To answer your queries:
1). I believe there was an overdose of all things Giza during the mid to late-1990’s, and after the Millennium people had had enough.
Certainly the publishing world realised this and turned it’s back on that genre and looked for a new market. I’m sure a higher-level of interest in the topic will return in another few years, as these things seem to be cyclic.
2). I for one would like to see more work done at Giza, possibly with the use of borehole photography and fibre optics to follow up on the GPR surveys. In areas that are not archaeologically sensitive I do not see this as being a problem. I seem to recall this took place during one of the last Schor expeditions a few years ago. But, apparently, all it revealed were natural cavities. However, recently there has been a shift in Egypt towards conservation rather than exploration so the chances of this happening in the near future are slim. Why Abbas et al includes such controversial speculation in their report I can only guess. Possibly to elicit funding, SCA interest and the like. But such wording can be a double-edged sword with the Internet rumour mill running rife, such as we saw in the 90’s.
Cheers,
Chris
30 April 2004
16 weeks 3 days
The interesting thing about Abbas, is that he has gone from conservation (in 1998, he was asked to help preserve the Sphinx) to exploration. Again, this is what baffles me about this story: it goes against everything that is happening, yet it's got the proper scientific credentials.
Though I'm not an adherent of "Hall of Records", you do have to ponder whether the grotto of the Great Pyramid is the only natural cavity that was enhanced there. The world is FULL of necropoli that were in origin natural caves, and to which certain things were done to it, from Lascaux and like onwards. Southern France, for example, is replete with limestone caves, in which men were buried (eg Tautavel man, 350,000 years ago!). Thus, to me, this is not about separating manmade from natural cavities, but seeing whether the natural ones might contain something. And "if only" it were a collection of human skeletons, that would be major in itself.
In no way would I like to see this done in a spirit of "Hall of Records", ET, or the like, but there are no serious issues involved in exploring these cavities from a conservation point of view.
To quote Jodie Foster in contact: we need to have a sense of adventure once again...
Filip
13 November 2007
1 year 11 weeks
Let's suppose there IS a hall of records beneath the Giza Plateau.
Let's try to give credit to that old "transcultural" tradition of an underground labyrinth with a specific entrance in/around the Sphinx only known by "masters of initiation".
Ok...
Now, make your guess...or your bet...
WHAT could be this entrance?
HOW to enter?
WHO is allowed to enter?
WHEN was it opened for the last time?
After all, maybe the solution to corroborate this legend is NOT necessarily to dig holes in the ground but to find the "doorway and the key" for the "right time"...
Anyone?
Chamizam
http://blog.cfpj.com/cfj/kheops
10 August 2004
6 hours 3 min
If the underground cavities were properly mapped, the result might be a pattern of extreme significance. Perhaps it's not what might be in the cavities but the cavities themselves which are the key.
Just a thought.
Regards, Kathrinn
25 July 2006
2 years 2 weeks
Kathrinn,
I think you will find the following quote from my book Giza: The Truth (with Ian Lawton) pertinent to your suggestion and to the discussion in general.
Cheers,
Chris O-H
Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) employs high frequency radio waves to penetrate below ground level producing an image of the subsurface features. Waves are transmitted downwards by an antenna, reflect off the substrata and the resulting signals are displayed as a profile. The method sounds relatively simple, but the depth to which the system can explore is constrained by a number of factors, including earth type. Certain soils and rocks, especially those with a high moisture content, affect the strength of the returning signal resulting in a loss of radio frequency. At first glance one would think that the seemingly dry conditions at Giza would have been perfect for employing GPR, but conditions of high humidity prevail, while the natural water table—which is not far below the surface—adds to the moisture absorbed by the porous limestone making up the bedrock and monuments of the plateau. The SRI team found the GPR equipment virtually useless when trials were carried out in 1974:
SRI hoped that radar probing of the pyramids in search of unknown passages or chambers would be feasible. However, it was found that the Giza area rock (and most of the limestone rock found in other archaeological sites in Egypt as well) exhibits very high in situ radio frequency losses so that radar probing is limited, for all practical purposes, to depths of a few meters even when a choice of operating frequency is optimal.
These unexpectedly high radar losses are due to high porosity and poor quality of the rock (the limestone could also be classed as fine-grained sandstone), and the high ambient humidity (75% to 85%) of the Nile Valley, the latter due to prevailing winds blowing south from the Mediterranean Sea, and to the capillary action from the Nile plain.
They team therefore decided to apply acoustic sounding, resistivity and magnetometry surveys during their subsequent 1977 field season in Egypt. But they were to find that even this combination of methods is not a foolproof way of locating unknown man-made chambers…
Huge Caves at Giza!
The rock of the Giza plateau is formed from sea sediments laid down millions of years ago. It is mostly limestone rock of varying grades of competency interlaced here and there with layers of sand and gravel. Fault lines are especially noticeably around the area of the Second Pyramid. The subsurface of the Plateau is honeycombed by ancient underground water courses which have formed natural voids or “solution cavities” in the soft limestone rock. Mark Lehner spoke of these cavities at a lecture in 1998 and added: “There’s huge caves at Giza, there’s a cave you can get lost in. There is a cave at Giza in this limestone and nobody saw the end of it”. Therefore it is easy to see how the researcher can be lulled into thinking that, in this rich archaeological area, they have located an undiscovered room or tunnel—when in reality what lies beneath their feet is a water-formed cavity or natural fault. It is vital to bear these problems in mind when reviewing the recent reports of various individuals claiming to have located secret chambers.
Giza: The Truth, Lawton, Ian & Ogilvie-Herald, Chris, Virgin Books 1999 pp 288-289
10 August 2004
6 hours 3 min
Maybe my idea wasn't such a good one after all! Thanks for the information.
Regards, Kathrinn
2 May 2004
6 hours 31 min
Giza: The Truth by Ian Lawton and Chris Ogilvie-Herald (Amazon US or UK).
Deserves another plug. ;-)
1 May 2004
10 weeks 2 days
'The existing Egyptian 2002 legal restrictions concerning any additional excavations at Giza, a law that remains in place until the year 2012, is another big issue that is clearly in need of review, sooner rather than later. '
This is taken from the linked page.
Another interesting mention of 2012.
12 April 2007
4 min 6 sec
It's good to see you commenting again :)
PS: Seems like A LOT of things are converging to that year, doesn't it?
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
1 May 2004
10 weeks 2 days
I have been quite busy with stuff.
I mentioned it just because of that, much is lining up to that date.
It is not the 'end of the world' date, of course, but from this year on (2009), it will be increasingly obvious that there is something 'wrong', taking into consideration that for a conditioned mind, anything that does not fit mass consciousness feels wrong.
12 April 2007
4 min 6 sec
What's funny to me, is that a lot of things with no relation to one another are somewhat converging to that particular year. It's like many people responsible for many different programs and projects thought "Hmm, 2012 has kind of nice ring to it, isn't it? let's use it".
That obviously does not mean anything in itself, but it is an interesting coincidence.
And there's of course the people that are aware of the mystical significance of the date itself, which might expect something portentous to happen, and could lead to a self-fulfilled prophesy.
Whatever it happens, these are going to be 3 very interesting years.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
1 May 2004
10 weeks 2 days
I do not believe in coincidences being coincidental.
12 April 2007
4 min 6 sec
Yeah; I like to say that myself.
Maybe one reason why so many people chose that date for their project's completion or whatever, it's because of the chance to use a date that has the progression "012".
So maybe a lot of thing could converge on the year 2123 as well.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
19 April 2007
29 weeks 1 day
hi red,
i think the year to be worried is year 3571,
year 2003 nibru, 2012 center, year 3571
but judgement day could be at hand now.
coincidences being coincidental is fine up to a point,
once it starts reaching over trillions to one its time to
wake up and smell the coffee.
i like some of Synchromysticism youtube clips.
heres one.
ciao cc
12 April 2007
4 min 6 sec
This guy has certainly uncovered some interesting memetic correlations.
Thank you for the link :)
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
22 November 2004
13 hours 39 min
Sometimes tells me you don't mean A.D. 3571 :)
This video is a parody, right?
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It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.
1 May 2004
10 weeks 2 days
Sometimes, people take their rationalization so seriously that it can be perceived as a parody.
The symbols are everywhere. Technically speaking, it would be possible to interpret the collective program by collecting and connecting the dots.
But for that, the person must not be able to think the correlations. If they do, they are disinforming themselves.
An exemple:
I once heard an person who was interviewing a great initiate suppose that since the Nazareen was named 'Jesus of NAZAreth, that surely there was a link between him and NAZA.
Best thing you can do is smile when faced with naive goodwill.
22 November 2004
13 hours 39 min
Indeed, the same few symbols are everywhere. And the same few numbers.
What makes me think that the video is a parody is the random stringing together of different symbols. Such as the concept that a cube is basically the same shape as a sphere. Or the part where a scene opens, the speaker says that there are 3 pyramids (cones really), when there are 15 or 20.
So either this is parody, or the presenter is very confused. In dubio pro reo.
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It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.
1 May 2004
10 weeks 2 days
Its a jungle out there.
19 April 2007
29 weeks 1 day
lol - like the old saying says - you cant see the forest from the trees.
i have seen a few more clips in where they discuss
most freemasons are being misled - mainly because the
ones even at the higher level are clueless to the true
meanings behind the art.
i saw one the other day - where even within freemasons
they praticise white magic and some black magic.
and that they practise rituals - so even so bad i wont even mention - but they using forces in nature.
this one guy - a high ex-member claims they some of the black magic get in contact with egyptian dark ginnie or dark force - was interesting.
heres some more from another thread from same guy with more
intro and background infor