I heard, not from a reliable source, that 70% of the people in the city of Toronto have never been outside that city.
Now I don't know if that number is even close to the real percentage. It seems sort of reasonable, but I don't have any real information on this.
So I have questions, perhaps someone knows more:
- is that sort of precentage realistic for Toronto, and (more importantly) for most big cities?
- is that sort of percentage realistic for most communities? I suspect it is, but again I don't know.
- does this explain a lot of the provincialism we see in world politics? Ok, don't have to answer that one, it's a "leading question".
70%
Hi Earthling,
I think that's about average for most developed places. Most likely even worse in the Third World. I've never had it confirmed but I read somewhere that only 20% of Americans have passports.
If true, what does that tell us?
...
Nite, nite
Anthony North
70
hi earth,
when you say
"that 70% of the people in the city of Toronto have never been outside that city."
its vague to me - do you mean -
1.70%lived only in Toronto and never moved to different city
or
2. actually 70% never been outside the citys borders ever
travel
What I heard what that the 70% have never traveled outside the greater Toronto area. Never been to North Bay, Niagara, that sort of thing.
I don't know if that is true. As I said, this sort of thing happens in small towns and villages, people don't go anywhere. Maybe it happens in big cities as well, it would not be all that surprising - everything you need is there in the big cities.
So I am just asking, does this seem like a reasonable number, the 70% or so?
I can believe it for other big cities, London, New York, Los Angeles, Mexico City. But really, I am asking.
----
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
(Bill Clinton, and perhaps others)
great city -
- well toronto has been globally recognized for
beening a great city and was number one spot at one point,
currently im not sure - but its still in top 20 i would believe.
and its kind of like ancient rome - people would flock to it and live there because they have everything life needs to offer. if you are outside of it - things harder to come by and generally more costly.
and its true toronto has just about everything
more than most cities in north america
except a tropical climate but we will get that too one day.
but with the wealth of toronto-gta that 70 percent figure still seems alittle high to me, considering vactions abroad and trips to cottage country, falls, trips, casinos outside gta, etc
seems to me 70 % of gta in there entire lifetime never to breach the gta is too high.
Wow!
70%? That sure sounds like a lot.
I'm looking at some statistics, according to the Mexican Nacional Institute of Geographic and Informatic Statistics (INEGI), the percentage of homes found below the line of poverty in 1998 was of 20.4% in New York City, in Boston it was 8.2%, and in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, it was 70%.
Now I know it is pure speculation, but based on that you could maybe say the percentage of homes below the line of poverty for a city like Toronto is 10-12%, and maybe the families whose income cannot afford to travel outside the city limmits might be 30%; now something like 30% seems more sensible in terms of economics issues exclusivly, but I think what you are referring here is the lack of desire of some folks to go out and visit new places, and that goes beyond incomes.
My passport expired A LONG time ago, Anthony. One of the main reasons I haven't renewed is because those kind of proceedings in a country like Mexico are a major, MAJOR pain in the ass. I have little desire to get up at 4:00 am to go stand in a line for 8+ hours waiting for some bureocratic idiot to attend me :-(
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
hi red
hi red,
red what is going on with mexico,
now you know i got my reasons for disliking mexico,
so i hope you dont take it personal that even when i
see the word mexico it makes me sick.
anyhow i glance at article and didnt bother reading it fully, but i believe mexicans were going near san diego and
they dress as cops and did some attacks, and numerous other
robberies -attacks near than area.
then today army was near the border around there in some
fight with druggies. is it because the states started to make a stink and they force to do something ? i not sure just asking since i didnt read it and i know your a well informed indiviual that just lives in that ungody area.
Hi ciamarra
Happy New Year, friend.
Yes, I understand (and remember) your reasons for mistrusting Mexico, and let me assure you there are a lot of things I personally DISLIKE about my country. That said, I would really like that you could have the opportunity to visit us sometimes, and find there are a lot of good things about Mexico aside from all the drug-related problems, and we mexicans (not all of course, but a lot) do know how to be great hosts to our guests that visit us from abroad.
I'm not really sure about the news you're referring. I did read in today's newspaper that there was a really big shootout between mexican army forces and some cartel hitmen in the border state of Tamaulipas, so maybe that's what you heard about. Unfortunately there has been a lot of violence linked with the cartels lately, but this is mainly because (IMO) the current administration is desperately trying to do a clean-up that was long overdue, since our previous politicians were pretty happy making deals with the drug-lords instead of fighting them.
http://www.milenio.com/index.php/2008/01...
Ok, as I'm writing this, I have also found another news referring to the beating of a Customs Inspector ("inspector de garitas"? I don't know how to translate this) by some border patrolmen. Apparently the inspector was off-duty and was dressing in civilian clothing. What I don't understand about the news report is if the border patrolmen where of american or mexican nationality. This report is very brief and doesn't give much info, though :-(
http://www.milenio.com/index.php/2008/01...
Unfortunately, I can't find more info about this two incidents. Please keep in mind that Mexico is quite a big country, and I live at the nation's capital, so many of these news don't get reported by the maintream newspapers and electronic services. Yes, there are a lot of wild regions with a high level of criminality, like for example Ciudad Juárez that has a infamous record of violence against women, but it would be a mistake to assume that this applies to the whole country; I assure you this is not the case. It would be as if I made the assumption that the crime rates of somewhere like Brooklin can also apply to the whole city of New York, or the entire United States for that matter: it would be a big misconception, right?
Later, dude :-)
-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
not poverty
I dont think the lack of travel is related to poverty. More like lack of interest, and lack of necessity. But really, I don't know if I believe the 70%.
For one thing, the real big cities grow by immigration to some extent. So the folks who were born someplace else, and then moved to the big city, have been outside the city by definition.
Then there is another community, those people who travel a lot. They meet other people who travel a lot, all in the same airports and all the same hotels.
So are those frequent travelers really familiar with the places they go? Or are they just citizens of yet another big city, that lives in airports and hotels and such? They only meet other citizens of that mobile city.
I don't know, it is just something to think about.
----
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
(Bill Clinton, and perhaps others)
Lack of interest
That is truly a pity, in this day an age.
I have had the benefit of traveling to some rally great places inside my own country, and I think it could probably take me 2 more lifetimes and many, many more travels to get to a point where I could say that I KNOW my own nation.
Maybe the lack of interest is related to a mistrust or fear of people, to experience something new: new enviroments, new customs. You tell yourself that you're content with staying in your own neighborhood where you know (and trust) everybody, but behind it may lie a fear of the unknown.
Mexico city is a megalopolis that keeps growing and growing, and I think that the reason for this is that most mexicans don't have that nomadic tendencies that I observe in many american citizens. In the US it is almost mandatory to study at a college located in a city other than your own, and when you finish your studies you don't return to your parents home, you settle at the place where you find a job; almost as if it is part of the adulthood passage to make it on your own faraway from the safety net of your birthplace.
I guess that's based partly on the immigrant origin of most americans, and also because most cities have healthy economies and job opportunities are not as centralized as in Mexico. Mexico city keeps growing because it is the central node of all the economic affairs of the nation, and its citizens enjoy a lot of privileges other mexicans lack, like a subsidized public transport and electricity.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
Living near the big smoke (Toronto)
Hey there,
I live in a community just north of the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) and let me tell you that you can actually leave Toronto itself without actually leaving Toronto. Confused yet? Let me see if this helps, the GTA is made up of several cities, the largest being Toronto and Mississauga, much like New York City is made up of different boroughs so is Toronto. So you see you can travel to Mississauga which is a 30 minute drive from down town Toronto and still technically be in Toronto. They call Toronto a Super-city for this reason. So my guess is that when they say 70% of people living in Toronto never leave the city, well in fact to most people living in Toronto they do leave the city, they go to one of the other communities which make up the GTA and yet technically they really aren't leaving Toronto. Make sense?
Later,
Dweller73
it's simmilar to Mexico
The metropolitan area of the Valley of Mexico is comprised of the Federal District and several peripheral areas that are part of the State of Mexico. I live in one of those areas, and commute everyday crossing a section of the city to get to my office that (technically speaking) lies outside the city limits.
I imagine that by 2020 the urban patch of Mexico city will cover sections of at least 3-4 states.
-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
i think so
Many very big cities are like that. Technically, you cross a city boundary, but you can't really tell. It is still the same stuff, continuously built up areas, and nothing really changes.
Los Angeles is another example. If someone puts you in the middle of the Greater Los Angeles area, and then you drive for 2 hours in any direction of your choice, you are still in the Greater Los Angeles area.
So it takes serious effort to leave these places.
Probably it is a normal thing. We don't know that many communities. There is a substantial community of Arizona residents who spend their summer vacation in San Diego. Similarly there are quite a few Canadians (retired people usually) who spend their winters in Florida. In both cases, they typically spend that time next to their neighbors from their homes.
Do we live in these bubbles, with not much contact with the other bubbles? And if that is so, how many different bubbles can a person visit?
----
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
(Bill Clinton, and perhaps others)