The Myth of the Million Dollar Challenge

For ten years, the modern skeptical movement has wielded a cudgel against claims of the paranormal: the James Randi Million Dollar Challenge. In many debates over the possibility of psi abilities, the Challenge provides a final word for one side..."has so-and-so applied for the Challenge?" The financial reward offered by the James Randi Educational Foundation is seen by many skeptics as providing an irresistible motivation for anybody with paranormal ability - after all, if someone could genuinely exhibit such powers, surely they would step forward to take the million?

However, after ten years, the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) says nobody has even got past their preliminary testing. Furthermore, none of the 'big fish' - medium John Edward, spoon-bender Uri Geller, psychic Sylvia Browne - have applied (although Sylvia Browne did accept James Randi's direct challenge on Larry King Live, without going any further). And now, perhaps as a result of that fact, James Randi has announced that the Challenge will come to an end in two years, on March 6th, 2010.

But does the challenge really make a statement about the existence of the paranormal and/or psi abilities? According to paranormal investigator Loyd Auerbach (who, like Randi, is a member of the magic fraternity):

The suggestion that ending the Challenge after 10 years supports any statement that psi does not exist or someone would have won the challenge, is absurd on many levels.

The procedures for the Challenge included several hurdles in favor of, and multiple "outs" for Randi and the JREF that any discerning individual capable of any kind of extraordinary human performance would think twice about (and here I'm not just referring to psychics and the like).

What are these hurdles that Auerbach refers to?

Chances, of Anything...

First, and perhaps the most important, is the effect size required to win the challenge. While the JREF says that "all tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant", this does not mean that the tests are fair scientific tests. The JREF need to protect a very large amount of money from possible "long-range shots", and as such they ask for extremely significant results before paying out - much higher than are generally accepted in scientific research (and if you don’t agree to terms, your application is rejected). In the case of parapsychological research, however, where effect size is often small (though apparently robust), this means most researchers would have to go to extraordinary lengths to win the million dollars. As one psi researcher pointed out to me:

In the ganzfeld telepathy test the meta-analytic hit rate with unselected subjects is 32% where chance expectation is 25%. If that 32% hit rate is the "real" telepathy effect, then for us to have a 99% chance of getting a significant effect at p < 0.005, we would need to run 989 trials. One ganzfeld session lasts about 1.5 hours, or about 1,483 total hours. Previous experiments show that it is not advisable to run more than one session per day. So we have to potentially recruit 989 x 2 people to participate, an experimenter who will spend 4+ years running these people day in and day out, and at the end we'll end up with p < 0.005. Randi will say those results aren't good enough, because you could get such a result by chance 5 in 1,000 times. Thus, he will require odds against chance of at least a million to 1 to pay out $1 million, and then the amount of time and money it would take to get a significant result would be far in excess of $1 million.

Furthermore, applicants must first pass a 'preliminary test', before they are allowed to progress to the actual 'formal' test which pays the million dollars. So an applicant must first show positive results in a preliminary test (yielding results against chance of at least 1000 to 1, apparently), then once through to the next stage they would then have to show positive results against much higher odds to claim the prize (by all reports, at odds of around 1 million to 1). Failure in either test means no cash prize, and a fail beside their name. It many respects it would be like telling a professional golfer to shoot 63 around Augusta National, then come back and shoot 59, to prove that he can play golf. In the words of Chris Carter, author of Parapsychology and the Skeptics:

If Randi were genuinely interested in testing unusual claims, then he would also not insist upon odds of at least one million to one against chance for the results. Anyone familiar with scientific studies will be aware that experimental results against chance of say, 800,000 to one would be considered extraordinary; but results this high would be, according to Randi, a “failure.”

Dr Michael Sudduth of San Francisco State University also pointed out to me a wonderful irony in one of the rules. Challenge rule #3 states: "We have no interest in theories nor explanations of how the claimed powers might work." As Sudduth puts it: “Curiously, Randi's challenge itself is saddled with assumptions of this very kind. The challenge makes little sense unless we assume that psi is the sort of thing that, if genuine, can be produced on demand, or at least is likely to manifest itself in some perspicuous manner under the conditions specified by the challenge.”

Researchers Step Up to the Plate

As a consequence, you might well say "no wonder no serious researcher has applied for the Challenge." Interestingly, this is not the case. Dr Dick Bierman, who has a PhD in physics, informed me that he did in fact approach James Randi about the Million Dollar Challenge in late 1998. Bierman reported a success in replicating the presentiment experiments of Dr Dean Radin (where human reactions seem to occur marginally before an event occurs), and was subsequently asked by Stanley Klein of the University of California why, if his results for psi effects were positive and replicable, he didn't respond to Randi's challenge. Bierman replied that he would rather invest his time in good scientific research, rather than convincing skeptics in a one-off test. However, after further discussion, he decided that he may be able to combine the two:

After some exchange of ideas I was brought into contact with Randi. Randi sounded sincerely interested and I worked out a proposal for an interesting experiment that would last about a year. Experimental effects in this type of research are small and require a lot of measurements to reach the required statistical significance (I think Randi wanted a p-value of 0.000001).

Note that he didn't insist on showing the effect on stage. Rather I proposed to do a kind of precognition (actually presentiment) experiment on-line over Internet where he or some other independent skeptic could generate the targets once the responses were communicated over the Internet (all this would be done automatically on a computer under his control within a second). This would prevent cheating from the experimenter's side but we still had to work out how to prevent cheating from the Randi-side.

At that point Randi mentioned that before proceeding he had to submit this preliminary proposal to his scientific board or committee. And basically that was the end of it. I have no idea where the process was obstructed but I must confess that I was glad that I could devote myself purely to science rather than having to deal with the skeptics and the associated media hypes.

Bierman said I should also contact Suitbert Ertel, Professor Emeritus of Georg-August-University of Göttingent, who has developed a new type of parapsychology experiment which seems to facilitate large-scale psi effects - which would be much more suited to the Randi challenge. Ertel, I was told, had apparently also discussed the challenge with James Randi, after his results had been replicated by other skeptical researchers. Ertel replied to my query by explaining his involvement with not just Randi's challenge, but also a separate 'Prize Challenge' offered by a German skeptical group:

My first approach [to Randi] was made because I thought the prize might be achieved by the Gauquelin planetary effect, a statistical "paranormal" or "neo-astrological" effect, with which I was very familiar as researcher. The problem was that decisions regarding the sample which would amount to 1000 natal charts was dependent on much informed thought, and Randi didn't know how to deal with the conditions. So the correspondence came to an end.

The second approach was made because I had applied to win the prize of 10,000 EURO which the German GWUP promised to give to someone who would be able to demonstrate large psi effects. Winning this prize would have been considered by Randi as passing his preliminary test, his first test which must be passed before someone is allowed to apply for Randi's main $1 000 000 test.

The psi effect demanded, even for the GWUP test = Randi's preliminary test, was so large that I was not hopeful that I would be able to show so much of psi, with the help of my psi-gifted students which I selected by my "pingpong ball test". My only goal was to achieve a statistically significant effect so as to make the skeptics admit that they observed a significant psi effect. This goal was achieved by my first test trial (one psi-gifted participant) in 2005. In 2006 another test was conducted with the presence of GWUP people: two of my students, psi-gifted in earlier tests, participated. In this test the effect was not significant.

One of the apparent reasons for this failure was that the skeptics had changed the conditions of this test arbitrarily in many ways so that the participants felt uneasy under strong control - such feelings have psi-reducing effects.

Ertel's first test with the GWUP had a p value of .018. He mentioned however, that two additional students among a number of observers also participated, secretly, during the test. Their results were also significant, giving a total significance p-value of .002. Ertel told me that the GWUP skeptics, to their credit, did note the results of the two students who had participated secretly.

Ertel thinks that the Million Dollar Prize is winnable, though obviously the odds required are not 'fair' scientifically. However, as one of the rules is that applicants must pay all their own expenses, he estimates that he would need at least $US10,000 to make a ‘long shot’ bid for the formal challenge. He would also like to have a personal attorney present and another independent scientist as observer, and would need to select 3-4 psi-gifted participants near the JREF institution where the tests would be performed:

But winning the prize would not be my main concern. My main concern is to achieve high levels of significance under control by the skeptics. Psi effects would have to be acknowledged as existent by the science community if they were achieved, i.e. replicated (because they would have been observed before the Randi test was made) with, say, p = .0001 - it need not be .000001. Winning the Randi prize is no scientific standard for acknowledging the existence of causal effects. P = .0001 or so obtained under control of people who are experts in deception (so that this factor is ruled out) and whose intention and bias is to prove that psi does NOT exist (so bias is also ruled out) would let psi appear existent beyond reasonable doubt.

Would You Trust This Man?

Ertel's mention of the expenses required to engage in Randi's challenge, returns us to to the "hurdles" mentioned by Loyd Auerbach. Perusing the rules of the Million Dollar Challenge would certainly give most people cause for concern. Two of the most important, especially when combined, are rules #4 and #8:

4. Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the setup, the protocol, and the actual testing, may be used freely by the JREF.

8. When entering into this challenge, as far as this may be done by established legal statutes, the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against Mr. Randi, and/or against any persons peripherally involved, and/or against the James Randi Educational Foundation. This applies to injury, and/or accident, and/or any other damage of a physical and/or emotional nature, and/or financial and/or professional loss, and/or damage of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the awarding of the prize, once it is properly won in accord with the protocol.

In other words, applicants give the JREF/Randi virtually absolute license to use the data as best suits their publicity needs, without any legal recourse for the participant. Not exactly enticing for an applicant, although if James Randi was held in higher esteem by the parapsychology research community then it might not matter so much. However, a number of scientists iterated to me their distrust of Randi...and a number of them appear to have good reason for that judgement. When I asked Rupert Sheldrake about the Million Dollar Challenge – a scientist who has investigated ‘telephone telepathy’, the sense of being stared at, and possible psychic talents in animals, Sheldrake told me quite simply: "I don’t take the prize seriously, and above all I don’t trust Randi since I’ve found him to be dishonest...He is not a scientist, has no scientific credentials, and is essentially a showman and an expert in deception". Sheldrake pointed out a previous confrontation as evidence for his distrust of James Randi:

The January 2000 issue of Dog World magazine included an article on a possible sixth sense in dogs, which discussed some of my research. In this article Randi was quoted as saying that in relation to canine ESP, "We at the JREF [James Randi Educational Foundation] have tested these claims. They fail." No details were given of these tests.

I emailed James Randi to ask for details of this JREF research. He did not reply. He ignored a second request for information too.

I then asked members of the JREF Scientific Advisory Board to help me find out more about this claim. They did indeed help by advising Randi to reply. In an email sent on Februaury 6, 2000 he told me that the tests he referred to were not done at the JREF, but took place "years ago" and were "informal". They involved two dogs belonging to a friend of his that he observed over a two-week period. All records had been lost. He wrote: "I overstated my case for doubting the reality of dog ESP based on the small amount of data I obtained. It was rash and improper of me to do so."

Randi also claimed to have debunked one of my experiments with the dog Jaytee, a part of which was shown on television. Jaytee went to the window to wait for his owner when she set off to come home, but did not do so before she set off. In Dog World, Randi stated: "Viewing the entire tape, we see that the dog responded to every car that drove by, and to every person who walked by." This is simply not true, and Randi now admits that he has never seen the tape.

Dr Gary Schwartz has often come under attack from James Randi for his research into mediumship. Labelled "Gullible Gary" by Randi, and accused of believing in the tooth fairy, Dr Schwartz refused an invitation from Randi to allow an "independently qualified panel" to hold forth on the data he has collected. According to Dr Schwartz: "He calls it an 'independently qualified panel', but it is composed mostly of people hand-picked to guarantee the decision would likely be a foregone conclusion, merely rubber-stamping his prejudices". In this case, Randi suggested a panel comprising of Ray Hyman (CSICOP Fellow), Marvin Minsky (CSICOP Fellow), Michael Shermer (CSICOP Fellow) and Stanley Krippner (a parapsychologist whom Randi is familiar with). Not exactly “independent”, one would surmise. Unfortunately, according to Dr Schwartz:

James Randi has a history of engaging in the twisting of the truth...Randi's recommendation of Dr. Krippner was certainly acceptable to me. However, when I contacted Dr. Krippner directly to see if Mr. Randi’s statement about him serving on the panel was correct, Dr. Krippner was concerned. Dr. Krippner explained that he had previously emailed Mr. Randi stating that he would not agree to serve on such a committee. The truth is, Dr. Krippner was not willing to serve on the panel, and he made this clear to Mr. Randi.

Lastly, despite James Randi's assurances that applying for the prize is a simple matter, this seems not to be the case. A number of the more 'general' applicants have waited multiple years to have their claim tested; one of the more recent, Carina Landin, went through a 3 year process just to reach the preliminary test, and after failing her test (achieving above chance results, but not to a significant level) found that her protocol had not been adhered to...and so is now waiting to be retested. According to 'Kramer', a former JREF employee who helped with applications:

We experience this a lot, and this most certainly leads many applicants to the conclusion that JREF is "jerking them around", forgetting that no JREF representative is involved in testing, and that tests are determined with Randi's approval, but without his direct involvement, in order to insure absolute impartiality in the testing procedure. JREF cannot guarantee the continued involvement of any third parties who volunteer their time (without any form of compensation) on behalf of The JREF Challenge."

All in all, it's rather easy to see why 'psychic personalities' would ignore the Million Dollar Challenge, irrespective of anyone's opinion as to whether their talents are real or fraudulent. It asks them to risk their careers on a million to one shot (assuming they are not fraudulent), putting all the power into the hands of a man they distrust - and who has been antagonistic towards them over a number of years - with no legal recourse available to them.

On the other hand, although parapsychologists face similar worries, it is now apparent that some are so determined to show the evidence for psi effects that they are willing to risk a failure in order to make an impression. Both Dick Bierman and Suitbert Ertel feel that there is a robust enough effect for them to at least scientifically prove to the skeptics that something interesting is going on. And perhaps others are aware of this fact...

You Say Paranormal, I Say Perinormal

At The Amaz!ng Meeting #3 (TAM3), the JREF-sponsored conference held in January 2005, Richard Dawkins made an intriguing comment during an on-stage chat with James Randi:

About the million dollar prize, I would be worried if I were you because of the fact that we have perinormal possibilities. I mean, what if somebody - what if there really is a perinormal phenomenon which is then embraced within science and will become normal, but at present is classified conventionally as paranormal?

Certainly, suspicious (some might say 'skeptical') minds might wonder whether the influx of positive “perinormal” results - such as from the decades of Ganzfeld telepathy research, replicated presentiment experiments, and Ertel’s new ball-drawing test - may have influenced the JREF’s decision to withdraw the Challenge. It’s interesting to note that Rule #14 of the challenge states:

This prize will continue to be offered until it is awarded. Upon the death of James Randi, the administration of the prize will pass into other hands, and it is intended that it continue in force.

Similarly, in a previous discussion regarding the Challenge, Randi had stated: “...the million dollars is not my million dollars, sir, it belongs to the foundation I represent, and it cannot be used for any purpose other than as prize money in the challenge." It would seem this is no longer the case…

Whatever the reasoning behind the withdrawal of the Million Dollar Challenge, it has little impact on scientific acceptance of psi effects. Even if a challenger took on the risks and won the million dollars – despite Suitbert Ertel’s best intentions - it is doubtful that skeptics would be convinced. According to CSICOP Fellow Dr Ray Hyman:

Scientists don't settle issues with a single test, so even if someone does win a big cash prize in a demonstration, this isn't going to convince anyone. Proof in science happens through replication, not through single experiments.

Ultimately, Irrelevant

It would seem the modern skeptical movement has all bases covered. If you don’t apply, it shows you have no evidence of the paranormal. If you do apply and fail, ditto. If you put your career on the line and apply, beat initial odds of 1000 to 1, and then 1,000,000 to 1, to win the Challenge, then it still offers no proof of the paranormal.

Ironically, paranormal investigator Dr Stephen Braude agrees with Ray Hyman about the merits of the Challenge: “The very idea that there could be a conclusive demonstration to the scientific community of psychic functioning is fundamentally flawed, and the suggestion that a scientifically ignorant showman should decide the matter is simply hilarious.“

Skepticism is certainly demanded in examinations of paranormal claims (not to mention, in all facets of life). However, the JREF Challenge seems to be primarily aimed at providing the modern skeptical movement with a purely rhetorical tool for attacking the topic of the paranormal. In a recent newsletter, James Randi says as much: “The purpose of the challenge has always been to provide an arguing basis for skeptics to point that the claimants just won’t accept the confrontation.” It appears though that some parapsychology researchers are actually more willing than Randi thought...

It seems quite obvious that the Million Dollar challenge does not offer - and has not offered in the past - a fair scientific evaluation of paranormal claims - rather, the statistics employed are primarily based on ensuring the million dollars remains safe. Other rules further stack the deck against participants, by handing control of publicity to the JREF. Suitbert Ertel commented to me:

Randi and those who offer a large monetary prize for psi effect demonstrations are entitled to demand unachievable psi effects. It's their money and they must be careful not to lose it. Everybody must admit that this is reasonable economically. But careful reasoning about money and property is quite a different thing than careful scientific reasoning.

Dr Dean Radin was more blunt in his assessment:

This 'challenge' was like Evel Knievel's steam-powered motorcycle jump over the Snake River Canyon: A great stunt, accompanied by pomp and bluster, but ultimately irrelevant.

-------------------

Update: James Randi has responded to this post in his JREF newsletter dated 29/02/2008: "The Grubbies Attack". While I don't consider this article an "attack" (nor consider myself "grubby"), I do thank Randi for responding. To be clear: I contacted the JREF three times while writing this article, and extended the deadline by a week, to allow for responses and clarifications from Randi (or JREF officials). I would have preferred that, rather than a rhetorical and selective newsletter 'debunking', but Randi is entitled to do what he likes.

Although I would like to leave the article to stand alone, rather than debating points, Randi makes some unfortunate errors in his newsletter, which I feel bound to point out here. Most importantly, in multiple passages, Randi refers to the words of "Loyd Auerbach" - these are not Auerbach's words, they are mine (apart from one short quote from Auerbach). This is unfortunate, as Randi directly addresses Loyd Auerbach in a rhetorical fashion on multiple occasions, when Auerbach did not say the words Randi attributes to him.

Other than that: I am not "chortling" over the end of the challenge, nor is this a "19,000 word tirade" (it doesn't even measure 4000 words, and it is simply an examination of the challenge). Surely Randi is not so sensitive about people offering skeptical analyses (this is his raison d'être, after all) of his own work, as to label them "tirades" (three times no less), when it most obviously isn't?

Randi defines "applied" for the challenge as it suits him. Sylvia Browne "applied", according to Randi, by responding on national TV after being "forced into it" (labeling my statement "wrong" as a consequence). Later, Professor Dick Bierman did not "apply", despite approaching Randi without being forced into it, because "his name appears in none of the application files". For the record, when I queried Randi about his in a private email, he confessed that "Browne never applied."

The passage about "none of the “big fish”" having applied is not a "canard", as Randi labels it - it is in fact a point in favour of the Challenge. For Randi's own edification, I am in agreement with him regarding Sylvia Browne.

In the only correct attribution to Loyd Auerbach, Randi says "we have never said nor even suggested [that the challenge disproves psi]. Loyd invented that, all by himself." Loyd did not claim that Randi made that statement. However, numerous self-described skeptics *have* suggested it. Auerbach had no need to "invent" it (a wonderfully descriptive phrase by Randi though, credit where due for his rhetorical skills).

Randi says "the applicant invests nothing, has nothing to lose, and should be able to beat the odds in the same way that any person could ." This is patently untrue, as the article shows.

Randi: "Again, nonsense. We have NEVER had an applicant fail to come to agreement with us when terms were negotiated, and every one of those applicants simply failed and did not re-apply." I stand corrected.

Randi: "What Auerbach purposely fails to understand – in order to have an argument – is that a pole-vaulter should be able to pole-vault, a cook should be able to cook, and a psychic should be able to do what he/she claims, to better than 1/100 odds."

Nonsense, Randi has no such knowledge that a psychic should do better than his arbitrary 1/100 odds - it is his personal opinion. Would it be snarky of me to point out that in earlier paragraphs Randi claimed to have an "abysmal ignorance of statistics"?

Randi says: "And, I have to wonder why Dr. Bierman did not press me to pursue the matter, since he reports that it seems to have simply vanished. We’ve had many of such disappearances, in which apparently interested persons, scientists among them such as Dr. Wayne E. Carr – also a PhD, so we know he’s a real scientist – who negotiated with us literally for years before backing out. "

Randi turns this around rather deftly with some rhetorical sleight-of-hand. According to Dr Bierman, the ball was in Randi's court when the application "disappeared"; Bierman did not "back out". Randi need not have "wondered" why Bierman did not follow up - Bierman says himself in the article. Further, Randi says his correspondence with Bierman terminated in 1983...I'm not sure of this date, as Bierman's email correspondence about presentiment was in 1998.

[The mention of Victor Zammit's own attack mid-response is nothing to do with my article.]

However, I am glad to see that my article has prompted Randi to lower the odds (to 1 in 100 for the preliminary, and 1 in 100,000 for the main challenge). This may make the Challenge a more attractive proposition for parapsychology researchers. It certainly remedies (to a degree) one of the main problems with the challenge - that the odds are so long. One in one hundred thousand is still no easy task however.

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Greg's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
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32 min 23 sec

Ironically, I've noticed today that Randi's latest newsletter, posted just a few hours ago, has another dig at Dean Radin. It's interesting to note this statement from Randi:

Radin’s latest distraction – parapsychologists are fond of abandoning lines of investigation when they prove fruitless – is “presentiment,”

Radin has actually been researching presentiment for over a decade, this is just a new type of experiment investigating the 'effect'. And, as mentioned in my essay, Dick Bierman approached Randi about doing a presentiment experiment as part of the Million Dollar Challenge ten years ago - on the basis of his *replication* of Radin's original experiments!

Rhetoric...

Kind regards,
Greg
-------------------------------------------
You monkeys only think you're running things

mcairo's picture
Member since:
3 February 2008
Last activity:
4 years 44 weeks

Greg, outstanding research and reporting. You are the psi world's Geraldo Rivera. Wait a second, that's actually an insult... sorry.

Anyway, a somehow overlooked truth struck me while reading your article. Just as "Santa" is the good anagram of the evil "Satan", "Randi" is the evil anagram of the good, "Radin".

All is now understood.

Richard's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
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3 weeks 2 days

Satan just didn't want anyone to notice his undercover hobby, so he switched the letters as all criminals do when taking an alias. 8\

red pill junkie's picture
Member since:
12 April 2007
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6 hours 32 min

Good one mcairo :-)

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

jupiter.enteract's picture
Member since:
21 January 2005
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16 hours 54 min

Good post, Greg.

I've been watching Randi in action for some 25 years now, and find him to be a deeply dishonest, self-serving figure. (Am I the only one who remembers even Arthur C. Clarke questioning his methods in a study on dowsers that was featured on Clarke's TV show?)

As just one example: there was a TV show in the 70s where Randi was flown to the South Pacific Islands to check out some remarkable fire walkers, and finally had to admit on camera that he couldn't explain their uncanny skills (which involved walking on coals far hotter than the sort of rocks used in human potential workshops, say). Then, several weeks later he appeared on some American talk show shamelessly reciting his usual line that he'd "never seen any phenomenon I couldn't explain."

This may be armchair psychoanalysis, but I sense a quality of emotional repression with quite a few of these figures--what might be described as a fear of the feminine, and an aversion to the more intuitive, wholistic side/capacities of the brain. (I won't go into some of the rumors swirling around the personal lives of some of these figures--use your imagination [and Google]--but they do seem to bear this out.) Perhaps so-called "irrational" phenomena or anomalies trigger an intensely emotional response in them for that reason. That may not hold true for honest skeptics, but it does seem to explain the case of chronic debunkers, IMO.

Truth_Seeker's picture
Member since:
16 January 2008
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6 years 18 weeks
jupiter.enteract wrote:

This may be armchair psychoanalysis, but I sense a quality of emotional repression with quite a few of these figures--what might be described as a fear of the feminine, and an aversion to the more intuitive, wholistic side/capacities of the brain.

Extremely insightful, Jupiter, and this is exactly my intuitive sense as to why this "feminine" attribute was suppressed over the ages in patriarchal religions. Whereas reason was admired in men, women tended to be more psychic - it was a mystical power beyond most men and it probably scared the hell out of them - the fear that a woman could be more powerful! In the early Christian Church, the male leadership felt threatened by the (maybe accurate?) prophesying of women; subsequently, male Church leaders instructed "the women are to keep silent in church" and if they wanted to learn, they would have to ask their husbands at home! In the Middle (Dark!) Ages, during the Inquisition and even into the 17th century (Salem, Mass.), it was mainly women who were put to death as witches (many of whom were likely herbal healers and midwives who meant to help, not harm). Fear of the unknown can drives humans to do very illogical, unreasonable things...

Finally, it seems in the 20th and 21st centuries more men are becoming in-tuned to their feminine energies - we're seeing lots more men displaying psychic abilities (maybe it has to do with the fact they know they won't be put to death in this modern age. They might be ridiculed, but not executed!). Would that the skeptics and materialist/reductionist scientists get in touch with their feminine qualities, or at least get over their fear of even daring to acknowledge that they, too, harbor these qualities and latent "power" deep within themselves!

As with any talent or skill, I believe everyone has psychic abilities to some degree or other whether one realizes it or not - one needs only to let go of reason/logic, to shine the light of consciousness on these abilities and then develop them (for good, of course, to help others, and not for selfish or evil purposes).

pacificwhim's picture
Member since:
21 June 2007
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1 year 16 weeks

Greg, bravo for stepping into the viper's nest on the JREF comment board to take on Randi's ridiculous comments on Radin. Well done. The old man exists in a sycophantic vacuum where angry twentysomething "guardians of the enlightenment" kiss his behind and repeat his garbage. The Radin piece was the usual pseudoskeptical nonsense: no replications, no predictability, psi can't be explained by current physics so why even look at it, ad hominem attack, peace out.

James Randi and his movement are and always will be about one thing: ego.

Michael H's picture
Member since:
19 December 2007
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3 years 43 weeks

It's remarkable how easy it is to recognize others who have blinded themselves to their own beliefs.

There's so much that I could comment on in this, I really don't know where to start. The Sheldrake example is just one of many - makes me wonder about how many media reports about anomalous phenomena involves reporting that just accepts a skeptical view at face value without any investigation as to the 'fact' the skeptic is stating as absolute.

Somewhat related, I had reason to look up the Eagleman experiment that was widely reported last December to have proven that crisis reports of time extension were illusory. In the process, I stumbled across another paper that claims that the Eagleman experiment was deeply flawed, and that the countless reports of time slowing down from people in crisis is actually real.

The mainstream media hasn't been as interested in reporting the paper arguing the opposing conclusion. I don't know whether the more recent paper has gone through the peer review process yet, but it's also occurred to me that the peer review process itself is flawed because the 'peers' doing the 'reviewing' are likely to give more credence to views that support what they already believe in the first place.

The mainstream media's doing the same thing. I'm not sure genuine objectivity exists anywhere. Randi would vehemently disagree with that suggestion as well.

DynaSoar's picture
Member since:
3 August 2005
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4 years 35 weeks

For my dissertation, I did work proving that something in tobacco other than nicotine caused certain changes in brain waves, and the changes were the same as caused by a substance known to prevent Parkinson's.

A tobacco company offered us a "seven figures" grant to just keep doing what we were. But doing so would have required we acknowledge the association with them. While the full disclosure is the proper thing to do and should prevent any accusations of wrong doing, informally it would make people suspect our motives and results. We wanted our research "clean" and published only in scientific journals, and not in the corporate press releases of that company. We turned them down.*

Randi is a P.R. pig. His challenge, and most of what he does, is, designed to get him noticed, because otherwise very few people would notice him at all. He was, and is, a showman.

Associating research with a media pig turns any serious research into bread for a media circus and in the minds of serious researchers, makes it suspect. If I were doing research in this area, I'd want to be taken seriously if I had decent results. Doing so on stage with someone who is primarily an entertainer is not the way to get taken seriously.

[* I went to visit the chemistry people who'd been in on the project my dissertation came from. I told them we'd been referenced in the movie "Thank You For Smoking" ('Why, they've just shown that smoking can offset Parkinson's disease.') They were not at all pleased at even this anonymous reference outside scientific circles.]

A million dollars sounds like a lot. It's hardly enough when the trade off is that vs. your entire future as a serious researcher. Only a serious researcher can adequately mount a valid challenge by developing a solid methodology that'd pass the test by providing the kind of proof necessary and prevent any potential challenges against its validity.

I could probably mount a decent challenge from two different areas, one using EEG and another using galvanic skin response, both being replications of others' prior work with positive results and good methodology. I won't, just as the researchers who developed those experiments haven't. We value our scientific reputations, and are not about to trade them for reputations as stage entertainers.

No, I am not the brain specialist.....
YES. Yes I AM the brain specialist.

Kat's picture
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Since it's dead-obvious a lot of 'proper research' went into the writing of this article, how about submitting it over at Slashdot? I'm sure it would spark a rousing discussion thread there. ;-)

Kat

red pill junkie's picture
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I second the motion! :-)

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

Greg's picture
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Any and all are invited to stick it in Slashdot's Firehose.

Kind regards,
Greg
-------------------------------------------
You monkeys only think you're running things

red pill junkie's picture
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It somehow seems to me that this contest was originally devised not with parapsychologists like Radin in mind, but rather for people like Uri Geller, who make public performances and not serious psi investigations in the lab.

But I would be very interested to know how many people have indeed entered this contest during all these years.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

Michael H's picture
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red pill junkie wrote:

But I would be very interested to know how many people have indeed entered this contest during all these years.

Michael Prescott wrote a series of posts late in '06 that left the impression that the rules were so ridiculous few even bothered to apply. And those who did were stonewalled for months.

There was also something about Randi claiming that older records of applicants were in file cabinets and hadn't been converted to web files. Probably the same file cabinets where the irrefutable evidence refuting Sheldrake are kept.

IDontNeedNoStinkinUsername's picture
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There is a Wikipedia article not only about Randi, but also one about the bogus challenge. I don't know how Wikipedia works but someone should use the info from this article to improve and bring some balance to the Wikipedia article about the challenge.
Anyway, well done. I think Randi is at heart a fundamentalist- completely close minded.

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No offense but have you truly read the article?
There is nothing wrong with Randi although yes it is true he might be a guy that should not be trusted but the fact of the matter remains that the challenge is valid based on not Randi's claims but from the claims of those like Geller who say that they are true Psychics and have near 100% rates of success.

This has nothing to do with 25% guesses versus 32% guesses etc. That is pure mindless garbage to use as a basis to counter the argument.

The test is there to prove that the so called 100% psychics with gifts or spirit guides are a fraud.

Are there people out there who have better intuition? Certainly, this test is not for them. This is to expose the charletons in the media.

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...none of the 'big fish' - medium John Edward, spoon-bender Uri Geller, psychic Sylvia Browne - have applied."

Because that will destroy their bottom line. Funny how all these name brand psychics all charge (a lot!) for their "gifts from god" LOL! Thanks Randi for your efforts to expose these frauds preying on people.

http://stopsylviabrowne.com/home/

Oh Greg, correction, Sylvia Brown HAD agreed to the challenge on Larry King Live (March 2001) but, we are still waiting...she must be very busy going back and forth from the bank.

http://www.randi.org/joom/content/view/1...

(with YouTube link)

Cheers

Greg's picture
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tihz_ho wrote:

Because that will destroy their bottom line...Oh Greg, correction, Sylvia Brown HAD agreed to the challenge on Larry King Live (March 2001) but, we are still waiting...she must be very busy going back and forth from the bank.

Not to defend Sylvia Browne (the last thing I'd want to do), but I can certainly understand someone agreeing in principle, and then when seeing they need to meet odds of 1 million to 1, backing out. It's been eye-opening, to actually look behind the 'Challenge'...a shame more 'critical thinkers' haven't done so before me.

Sylvia Browne may be a big fat fraud, but the Million Dollar Challenge doesn't give me evidence for that. Her failed readings offer more substantial evidence.

Kind regards,
Greg
-------------------------------------------
You monkeys only think you're running things

tihz_ho's picture
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Greg wrote: Sylvia Browne may be a big fat fraud, but the Million Dollar Challenge doesn't give me evidence for that. Her failed readings offer more substantial evidence.

A broad media frenzy of a Sylvia failing the challenge is the beauty of the challenge verses Sylvia's failed readings which are not very news worthy.

The media loves people like Sylvia Browne because people love people like Sylvia Browne. Therefore it does not serve the media to make public Sylvia's failures unless the failure is so complete - like failing Randi's challenge - which is extremely news worthy.

It was on Larry King Live that Sylvia Browne agreed to the challenge - at that moment that gave her creditability that she is the "real deal" to the public at large.

What was not followed up by Larry King Live (and the media at large) was Sylvia Browne's refusal to actually do the challenge!! Therefore public memory of Sylvia Browne and Randi's challenge is she agreed to do it - she is confident, it was on Larry King Live and not hearing anything else about it is good news - she must have passed!

Greg, nothing in the world is perfect - do you seek to throw out the baby with the bathwater in attacking the challenge lopsidedly? Has Randi been able to address your charges? What is his response?

Your article without Randi's answers to charges made become like Sylvia Browne agreement to submit to the challenge on Larry King Live - people only remember your article on the challenge without answer from Randi in defense.

Without the challenge or something like it what will "keep the bastards honest"?

I for one support Randi in his mission to expose the frauds who prey on those who wish to believe in the lie. If a few "honest" dowsers get lost along the way, for example, well so be it, as the world is a far better place with Randi's challenge or something like it then not.

Cheers

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tihz_ho wrote:

Greg, nothing in the world is perfect - do you seek to throw out the baby with the bathwater in attacking the challenge lopsidedly? Has Randi been able to address your charges? What is his response?

Your article without Randi's answers to charges made become like Sylvia Browne agreement to submit to the challenge on Larry King Live - people only remember your article on the challenge without answer from Randi in defense

I don't think I attacked the challenge lopsidedly. I simply pointed out that a myth has grown around the Challenge that it disproves the paranormal. I would call it "clarification", rather than "attacking".

I emailed the JREF on the 4th of February about the article, asking for input. I followed up on the 7th. I received a minor contact from them on the 14th, which was actually my original 'deadline' that I had set. I therefore told them that I was extending the deadline to allow time for their input. On the 22nd, after receiving no response, I emailed them to say that I was posting the article, but that I would be more than happy to add a postscript to the article if they had comments to add.

Quote:

Without the challenge or something like it what will "keep the bastards honest"?

I'm not sure, but that has nothing to do with me. The challenge succeeds or fails on its own merits. All I have done is point out some of its flaws.

Kind regards,
Greg
-------------------------------------------
You monkeys only think you're running things

jhskulk's picture
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Zaqir, you might be right about that, but Randi and the lot very much state that the fact that the challenge hasn't been won is direct proof that no paranormal functioning exists at all.

Perhaps if they were clear it was about debunking obvious charlatans, the challenge wouldn't be so controversial.

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The claim by Randi is a direct reply and statement to those fakes who claim 100% accuracy and go on media and are frauds. If they claim they have amazing gifts Randi counter claims that they are amazing BSers and that is what the challenge is for.

Anyone with true gifts should be able to go in and show a CLEAR function of their gift and if they had to do it 1 time or 100 times they should be able to. The test is there so that no luck can occur, the test is there to prove the claims of these fakes who say they don't use luck themselves so the test makes sure there is no luck or random chance.

If you guide can tell you the answer to a question once then surely the guide can tell it to you 100 times and heck, win the million and donate it right back or give it to charity.

Greg's picture
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Zaqir wrote:

Anyone with true gifts should be able to go in and show a CLEAR function of their gift and if they had to do it 1 time or 100 times they should be able to. The test is there so that no luck can occur, the test is there to prove the claims of these fakes who say they don't use luck themselves so the test makes sure there is no luck or random chance.

Are you serious? So if someone shot 99 baskets out of 100 shots, you'd say they obviously can't play basketball?

Kind regards,
Greg
-------------------------------------------
You monkeys only think you're running things

Richard's picture
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... since the forces responsible for those 'gifts', which have nothing to do with a god, want to remain anonymous.

These things are not under the control of the carrier, otherwise it would not be called a 'gift'.

Exposing the invisible will be extremely difficult, because it works not just through these effects of apparent exception shown by certain individuals, and often faked by a lot of other individuals, but because it also works through the mind by way of thoughts.

So, you have those who believe its true, those who believe its a fraud, but the question should not be what one believes but what really is there. Belief always leads to confrontations and renders blind. No matter on which side of the fence the believer is standing.

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jhskulk said, "Randi and the lot very much state that the fact that the challenge hasn't been won is direct proof that no paranormal functioning exists at all."

jhskulk, please cite where James Randi stated such a thing. I'm very interested to know where you got this information!

Thanks.

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One of my favorites of RAW's creations/causes is the Committee for the Surreal Investigation of Claims of the Normal:
The Board of the College of Patapsychology offers one million Irish pounds to any "normalist" who can exhibit "a normal sunset, an average Beethoven sonata, an ordinary Playmate of the Month, or any thing or event in space-time that qualifies as normal, average or ordinary."

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Well Randi did offer me three thousand dollars to drop my claim years ago, and guess what, he NEVER paid it either... So if he ain't paid the $3,000, he sure isn't going to pay $1,000,000 to anyone...

See my website at http://www.RileyG.com (under press releases, See 6-19-1999) for his emails on the subject...

Signed,
Riley G Matthews

Mark Roberts's picture
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Riley G wrote:

Well Randi did offer me three thousand dollars to drop my claim years ago, and guess what, he NEVER paid it either... So if he ain't paid the $3,000, he sure isn't going to pay $1,000,000 to anyone...

See my website at http://www.RileyG.com (under press releases, See 6-19-1999) for his emails on the subject...

Signed,
Riley G Matthews

So, Riley, since the $1 million – your application for which was not accepted (there's nothing psychic, paranormal or supernatural about your claim, and it seems that Randi's challenge to you was a bit of hot-headedness) – or the $3000, which you also didn't accept – isn't at stake, how about producing that evidence that Randi "hangs up on the hosts after about 30 seconds into the broadcasts"? It seems to me that if you're going to claim the high road here, you'll need to produce the evidence. Please do so.

I note that on your site you say,

"After his retirement from the NYPD with a line-of-duty injury, he joined forces from Sept 1990 - July 1995 with Police & Government Agencies around the world using his paranormal abilities to help solve crimes or give clues into other assorted mysteries."

You don't say that you actually DID help. Can you give me a police or government contact who will confirm that your psychic work was instrumental in solving any crime, or did you just "join forces...to help solve crimes or give clues," as so many "psychics" say?

I await your replies.

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I answered James Randi's challenge to me to prove what I wrote, and have spoken... HE CHALLENGED me to prove it for the million dollars... Something about that that you and other skeptics fail to see... In fact, I'm not the first, nor last person James Randi has made such challenges to in regards to a million dollar prize... Plus the fact that Randi offered me 3K US to forget the challenge he made me, both the which I agreed and have failed to EVER see any funds... Randi is a two bit hack and his word is of question... Just ask him about ** passage removed due to unsubstantiated accusations (ed.) **

Riley G Matthews Jr
Actor - Paranormalist
Http://www.RileyG.com

Riley G's picture
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The audio evidence is on the site from the Edge Of Reality radio show with Host Ken Dashow... This is something Randi claims NEVER happened, but the tape proves otherwise ** unsubstantiated accusations removed (ed.) ** Oh, the spin some skeptics place on their pal Randi...

repeated claims by many people can't be all lies and attacks on Randi... Their is truth behinds those veils...

Riley G Matthews Jr
Actor - Paranormalist
Http://www.RileyG.com

Mark Roberts's picture
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Riley G wrote:

The audio evidence is on the site from the Edge Of Reality radio show with Host Ken Dashow... This is something Randi claims NEVER happened, but the tape proves otherwise ** unsubstantiated accusations removed (ed.) ** Oh, the spin some skeptics place on their pal Randi...

repeated claims by many people can't be all lies and attacks on Randi... Their is truth behinds those veils...

Riley G Matthews Jr
Actor - Paranormalist
Http://www.RileyG.com

False. You claimed he hung up on hosts on multiple shows in about 30 seconds. That didn't happen.

In your answer to Randi's challenge, you then changed your claim. That's a no-no, Riley!

It's a silly issue, but it's important for you to understand the principle here. There's a very good reason why the challenge applicant agrees to everything in detail, in writing, why all terms are strictly defined, and why the applicant and agrees in writing before the test that all conditions are propitious to their succeeding: to keep them from moving the goalposts, as you just did.

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In his recent book, The Gold Leaf Lady, Stephen Braude wrote (pp. 22-23):

"In 1967 [Oct. 4] on the Today show ... Randi ... claimed that he could reproduce them [the Serios effects] under conditions similar to those in which Serios succeeded. That would have been a neat trick, because those conditions included wearing clothing supplied by the experimenters and being separated from the camera (sometimes in another room, and sometimes in an electrically shielded Faraday cage). Nevertheless, with his usual bluster, Randi accepted the $10,000 challenge.

"Of course, confidence is easy to feign, and Randi does it routinely.... So Randi's dismissal of the Serios case was all it took ... even for those sympathetic to parapsychology but unaware of Randi's dishonesty. ...

"What the TV audience never learned was that when the show was over and Randi was pressed to make good on his wager, he simply weaseled out of it. To keep that side of the story under wraps, Randi prohibited publication of his correspondence on the matter. ... However, Randi's original letters now reside in the library at the University of Maryland Baltimore County, and researchers, finally, can easily confirm this for themselves. ...

"In any case, if Randi had actually been able to do what Serios did, you can be sure he would have done it publicly and with considerable fanfare. He's too much of a publicity hound to pass up such an opportunity. .... Interestingly, this paucity of evidence never prevented the widely read and respected (but under the circumstances despicably non-authoritative) Martin Gardner from claiming that Randi "regularly" duplicates the Serios phenomenon, 'and with more skill.'"

And here's a thread that gives some additional detail on the Randi vs. Serios matter: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-po...

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Let's not get into ad homs, but stick to ad rems. Basically, what we want to deal with are Randi's arguments, claims, and other public behavior.

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Randi's unsolicited challenge to me in early 1999 does fall into other public behavior as Randi has done the same sort of non-paranormal or non-psychic challenge for the million with his mouth and ego getting him into trouble over it... I'm not the first nor last person he made challenges to that were non-psychic related to claiming a million dollars... I did bring it to the publics attention back then, and am doing so now... Randi's word is very suspect in these matters...

Also for the record, I had sent Randi TWO PSYCHIC / PARANORMAL challenges to the million that he also refused... Both dealing with Remote Viewing...

Riley G Matthews Jr
Actor - Paranormalist
Http://www.RileyG.com

Roger Knights's picture
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Riley wrote: "Randi's unsolicited challenge to me in early 1999 does fall into other public behavior ..."

Sure, but that's not what I was referring to. I meant what you wrote that followed your discussion of his challenge to you. That topic is too tangential to psi, and too "ad hom," to get into. I wish you'd edit it out of your posts.

Colette M. Dowell's picture
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Transformation -

I see there is editing going on here. My previous post has been taken down. Now , in my post I pointed out there is an academician that is known - who knowingly and admittedly - actively writes about my paranormal abilities. I quote a recent paper on the matter to show evidence of this fact (paper work clause in Randi's qulifications). However, I also point out that I have had a problem with credit (this is in relation to having to have a media presence under the guidelines of the first two conditions as clearly stated by Randi who will validate and verify the candidate: "Second, he/she must produce at least on signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified." ). Having said that, I know of other videos, books et. al. media presence as well - this is stated to say that I have a remarkable history in this subject and I am not just coming out of the walls - Also I comment on the methods of writing used in the qualifications. I comment on sexual perverts as It was addressed in earlier posts and I remarked that there is a possibility they can transform their "cast" - end with slight humor of questioning this ability as if this is a form of paranormal.

I was not contacted about my post, it was not partly edited out.........it was deliberately taken out in its entirety - or some one errored in their ways. It was not posted to me, " wish you'd edit it out of your posts." I will post it again in the event some one mistakenly took it down. If it is to be edited, I feel it is customary and courteous to contact me and give reason. If it is to be edited down, post me and give reason as in Riley's case - I see his postings have been altered now. In this event , that would change and alter what I had posted as I wrote on relating incidences of human traits - frailties of virtues and honor - be it natural or paranormal?

Colette Dowell

First 2 conditions

Should I apply? hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm ----In reality? The cost is forebidding.

"This offer is not open to any and all persons. Before being considered as an applicant, the person applying must satisfy two conditions: First, he/she must have a "media presence," which means having been published, written about, or known to the media in regard to his/her claimed abilities or powers. This can be established by producing articles, videos, books, or other published material that specifically address the person's abilities. Second, he/she must produce at least on signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified."

I can at satisfy the first two conditions if Robert Schoch would ever address me by my name and give me due credit in many instances of exploit or when he writes about such things on the paranormal such as this, that is now in Wiki from a paper that Schoch must have written for Atlantis Rising recently (well, if Robert just can't recall my name ---geez, I have lots of books, videos and the likes I can produce as "media presence" and other academics from other universities that would surely credit me....) I stumbled on this today (no, I am not smiling) and, well, then I read this on the Grail about the prize money, and, well, it is synchronisity...hey --- I should apply! I read the PDF file.....aaaaaahhhh.....they want the applicant to pay all costs up front...."For the record, here's the full source quote from Atlantis Rising magazine Jan/Feb 2008 issue for the ref on Robert M. Schoch in the Notable witnesses section, article written by Schoch: Although I was extremely skeptical at first, after spending years of studying the topic, based on literature reviews, theoretical analyses, and first-hand experiences, I do believe that at least some PK is real. ... Clearly to my mind, the PEAR studies (and similar studies in other laboratories) have demonstrated that micro-PK exists. ... I will admit that once I personally observed a minor poltergeist incident (a book "jumping" off a shelf when no one was close to it, and there was no shaking or other tampering with the shelf, and this occurred with a woman in the room who has had other poltergeist incidents occur in her presence). 5Q5 (talk) 21:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)"

WOW - I read this and it is surely a disgracing comment to people. I do know there are things that happen. I experience them, but, I do no think science is really the proper way to investigate things. Why can't people just witness them and realize them? That is the gift of the super natural. Is it for science to really understand? As was it for Frankenstein to dicker around with nature / life and the soul of man to create a monster?

"Several applicants have suffered great personal embarrassment after failing these tests. I strongly advise you to conduct proper double-blind tests of any ability you believe you can demonstrate, before attempting to undergo testing for this prize. This has saved many applicants much time and work, by showing that the powers were quite imaginary on the part of the would-be claimant. Do not choose to ignore the need for such a precaution. This advice is offered only so that the applicant might be spared these problems."

This man's tone in writing for the contest or challenge seemingly is a farce as he tries to write in some what legal jargon, as in contest rules, but, he is too demeaning and defensive....what a punk....

** Message edited (ed.)**

Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.circulartimes.org
www.robertschoch.net

Greg's picture
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Colette M. Dowell wrote:

Transformation -

I see there is editing going on here. My previous post has been taken down...[snip] I comment on sexual perverts as It was addressed in earlier posts

Hi Colette,

It was the reference to these previous posts (which have been now been edited) which was the offending material. It has been edited out again (referencing a certain person in regards to sexual perversion without evidence is not acceptable).

Quote:

If it is to be edited, I feel it is customary and courteous to contact me and give reason.

I emailed you, but the address I have seems to be bouncing.

Kind regards,
Greg

Roger Knights's picture
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I agree. "Our side" shouldn't act in accordance with the motto, "Any stick will do to beat the devil." Let's leave that behavior to Them.

I wish I'd thought to hit the "Report" button at once, so speedier action could have been taken. But the label for your Report button said, "Report spam," which wasn't the case.

(Incidentally, it's very annoying that other sites make similar prejudgments about what sort of Reports are useful. For instance, Amazon's Report dialog box allows no comments by the reporter--it simply and presumptuously assumes that the only reason for making a report about a post is that it is "objectionable." This makes it impossible to report double posts, which are a worse annoyance.)

Roger Knights's picture
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Greg wrote:

Transformation -
the offending material ... has been edited out again (referencing a certain person in regards to sexual perversion without evidence is not acceptable).

Even with evidence it would be irrelevant to a discussion of the paranormal.

Colette M. Dowell's picture
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Hello Greg,

So, it is to say I posted in between edits on other's posts? Sorry, but, no, I did not receive any email from you from either of your addresses; mine has not changed.

If there is no evidence of the offensive sexual (or socially unacceptable in certain arenas) behaviour - (be it for ritualistic/occult; use as in obtaining desired euphoric altered state or delivery of said "paranormal" activity / outcome - a predisposed sense of intent and use of sexual powers for other than "natural" satisfaction and gratification and or otherwise) I can understand that you would edit out comments of sexual escapades when a name is referenced. I was unaware there is to be no evidence substantiated.

Thank you for just editing out the sexual reference/content and leaving the true grit of my post in tact now. This would have sufficed to edit those few lines out intitally and placed notice.

XC

Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.circulartimes.org
www.robertschoch.net

Mark Roberts's picture
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By the way, Riley, I asked if you could provide me with contacts who would confirm that your "psychic" abilities have been helpful in solving a criminal case.

Please do so.

Colette M. Dowell's picture
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Hello,

I do not know if this is off topic, or a side topic:

Riley, I went to your site and read your letters and your application for the contest. You attacked Randi and it seemed foolish and dumb what you did. You did not enter the challenge under the decisive foci. You tried to intimidate him, he posted you back with comments and you posted the writings on your site as if ou have been harmed. Get a grip.

It is things like this that are done that hurt others who are sincere. This is all very dumb, dumb, dumb.....

I was wondering about the pretrial, why there would have to be a pretrial - I think that should act as a "go" for the money. It maybe that "they" look at the claim and decide whether or not it is questionable if that person may be able to actually win.....if so, they deny the results ...who knows, it is beyond me.....A person has to be rich to play with these fellows.

Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.circulartimes.org
www.robertschoch.net

Zaqir's picture
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In response to the 99 out of 100 basketball comments.

The challenge by Randi is not even asking for 100 out of 100. The so called people applying can't even perform the challenge 1 out of 100 times.

Do not compare apples to oranges.

If I have an envelope and I hide it in a room 100 times or if I hide 100 envelops i bet you as much as Randi bets someone that you wont get even 90% right, 50% right, 32% right etc etc.

If even 1 of them is right it is a sheer guess and no proof of psychic ability.

Randi is trying to prove the same, that this is not a guess but that the peoples maknig the claims have an ability and he is proving their ability is complete BS.

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So Zaqir, perhaps you can give us a precise percentile that you would accept as "significant," in the performing of paranormal abilities? Or are these goalposts moveable, subject to individual (and subjective) whim?

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Its all common sense! Ability is ability! You can do it or you can't. So when someone says "I am psychic" We should do what... Take your word for it? Sorry not all people are that stupid!

If someone says they can do something and I pay them and I don't get what they said they can do should get my money back right?

Say I paid someone to wave a stick around to find water and they can't do it and tell me there is no water. Then I pay someone to find some water with conventional equipment and they find water, should get my money back from the stick waving guy? Am I just supposed to just believe that the stick waving guy created the situation to where water had now just appeared?

Ever hear of any "psychics" handing out refunds...? HAR!

Cheers

jupiter.enteract's picture
Member since:
21 January 2005
Last activity:
16 hours 54 min

You're being completely evasive here; this isn't simply a "you can do it or you can't" matter, otherwise a single success in the laboratory would "prove" psychic abilities. If you're not already aware of the whole subject of Meta-Analysis and it's relation to paranormal abilities, I strongly suggest you look into this.

And your example of the dowser is certainly ill-chosen, considering Randi's infamous experience with dowsers on Arthur C. Clarke's TV show years ago, when Clarke--no true believer himself--pointed out Randi's spurious methods of juggling statistics in assessing the abilities of dowsers.

Again, I would pose the question: what percentile of success would be acceptable? I was responding to the fact that the poster cited specific figures as being unacceptable. Well okay, but what IS acceptable, then?

Greg's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
32 min 23 sec
tihz_ho wrote:

Ever hear of any "psychics" handing out refunds...? HAR!

Actually, seeing you asked - yes. Quite a few in fact. One of them has even commented earlier in this thread.

Kind regards,
Greg
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You monkeys only think you're running things

Richard's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
3 weeks 2 days

A true scientifically minded individual would verify his claims before making categorical statements.

That is where the problem lies with confrontation.

Everybody thinks he holds a truth without being the sightlessly involved with the subject at hand.

People think this way so they assume this way.

I am going to say this though. An individual with real ties to what we call the paranormal does not feel the need to prove it and does not need the confirmation of anyone to appreciate the reality of his experience. He can be lied from within the experience and misinterpret information, but should not need recognition of the phenomena by others who are trying to interpret something that lies outside of their own field of conscious experience.

There are a lot of people out there that don't give to whom what Randy may be thinking. What he thinks is his business and what others think is none of his.

Mark Roberts's picture
Member since:
23 February 2008
Last activity:
6 years 21 weeks
jupiter.enteract wrote:

So Zaqir, perhaps you can give us a precise percentile that you would accept as "significant," in the performing of paranormal abilities? Or are these goalposts moveable, subject to individual (and subjective) whim?

There's no "moving of goalposts" in the million dollar challenge. The applicants agree in writing as to what constitutes success. The contract is legally binding on the JREF.

What's so hard to understand about that?

etcorngods's picture
Member since:
25 February 2008
Last activity:
4 years 48 weeks

Six years or so ago, i was introduced to Randi over the phone. I told him that I wanted to accept his "challenge". He heard what I had to say and hung up on me.
Recently I went on his Forum. I introduced the ET Corn Gods language in a thread. Once those Randi-ites realized that what I had couldn't be debunked, they all Piled on. Those guys are worse than a bunch of Born Again Baptists.
Better believe the way they believe, or they tar and feather you.
I sued Randi and his "educational foundation" in federal court. Withdrew the suit after Randi had spent about $20,000.
You guys might might want to see the ET Corn Gods language/game -- www.etcorngods.com -- am also setting up a blog -- not running yet -- ufoetblog.com.
The ET Corn Gods language is an extensive language embedded in the English language -- brutal in it's messages. There is a God -- he/she has chosen to reveal him/herself through our language (preplanned by God/UFO/ET)
George Simpson