u of toronto - Global warming saved primitive life millions years ago
Posted by ciamarra at 14:20, 06 Dec 2007its wild how Global warming could
cause alot of damaged in the future
but in the past is now thought of to
once save life on the planet long ago
by warming the ancient atmosphere enough to prevent the entire planet
from being covered with massive sheets of ice
http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/Envir...
currently scientists says emissions need to peak and start falling in the 10 to 15 year time frame to keep global temperatures from rising more than 2 degrees. That is a level beyond which many scientists fear will cause widespread species extinctions and harm to the massive Greenland ice sheet, whose melting would lead to extensive flooding in low lying coastal area of the world.
Temperatures have already risen about 0.7 degrees during the 20th century due to human activity, according to current estimates.
To hold temperatures to a 2 degree increase, greenhouse gas concentrations will have to be stabilized at a level “well below” 450 parts per million, if all harmful gases are measured in terms of carbon dioxide, the declaration said. The current reading is about 430 ppm and rising by approximately 2 ppm a year.
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Comments
12 April 2007
6 hours 17 min
Those cyclical modes between super-ice ages and super-warmings seem possible, and it is true that in the end global warming will help in general to life on Earth (eventhough some species like the polar bear could become extinct if they can't cope with the changes).
But it's us as a civilization that I worry about. Could we cope with so great a change if the current coastal lines are swallowed by the rising oceans?
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
19 April 2007
5 days 9 hours
you mention civilization - sometimes i look at man-kind,
and think what that term implies - sometimes i wonder if man-kind is civilize.
for 35 years the approach by big polluters and governments in certain countries soaring birth rates have been so il-responible. certain countries were warned about the population boom over 35 years ago - and they just soared and have done nothing to curve that- lucky tech advancements in farming has aided to feed them.
but its clear those countries are in trouble on there current path in nearby future - their governements need to act - and shouldnt hope the west will bail them out again.
rising oceans - coastlines are bound to change, flooding, diasters arent nothing new in terms of history.
i am concerned mainly with pollution and no population controls on certain countries which increase demands and cause more population, pollution ,deaths.
clearly certain governments need to take matters into there hands and start putting caps on these countries with soaring population and birth rates to avoid future trouble.
the huge increases in population has been so il-rsponible - more population - more popullution - more pollution - more deaths - illnesses- more demand on resources across the board, and they have totally ignore all warnings in the pass and know current trends cant be supported.
clear to me man-kind survival should be primary focus,
and even space stations or a colony on mars would be great to that effect.
i think even if the ice age would to reoccur - places on earth could support life.
12 April 2007
6 hours 17 min
you mention civilization - sometimes i look at man-kind,
and think what that term implies - sometimes i wonder if man-kind is civilize.
You couldn't be more right.
And you are right about population controls, although it seems to me that, when those campaigns were promoted in the 60s, the NGOs didn't take into account the long-term effect IF they actually succeded. What I mean is this: If you look at the birth rates in many of the western world countries, even in the nations of Latin America, you would see graphs that ressemble bells, which means that the message sank in and in countries where families used to have 5 children they now have 2 tops; this of course is mainly present among the upper classes and the leve of education is also a driving factor.
But then we have this problem: that by 2050 in many countries there will be more older people than younger, and that is a BIG problem, since those younger people will have to work to support the pensions of old timers like me, that will be 70-80 years-old by then. Will they be willing to do so? Or will we see the development of a Logan's Run-type society?
Well, probably that would be a worst-case scenario. I'm hoping that medical advances would permit people in their 70s to have the health and vigor of peple in their 50s nowadays. And since Japan is going to be one of the countries in which this particular problem will be more accute, that's the reason they're working so hard to develop a work force that will carry the hardest chores of their society, and won't complain about it: robots.
Now, about changes in coastal areas, you are right in that there have always been natural disasters that have modelled the way people live there. But that is incompatible which the way modern man exploits those lands. 100-200 years ago we didn't have multi-million-dollar 5-stars luxury resorts in places like the Bahamas, or even Miami for that matter; tourism is quickly becoming the #1 economic industry in coastal areas, specially in developing countries like Mexico (whenever a hurricane hits the southeast, the FIRST places to receive aid are the tourist zones, not the poorer towns); and while we could argue that fishing villages could migrate to higher grounds, how do you move a 50 story super-hotel from its currenty endangered location?
The answer is that you don't. Some countries will have the sufficient common sense and money to develop ways to protect those areas. The Netherlands and Venice are good examples of long-term programs that will take or have taken billions of dollars to complete. But there in lies the bigger threat: that while some richer countries will perhaps be abe to cope with the changes that global warming will bring, many others won't, and so it is not difficult to foresee the migration of hundreds of millions of poor human beings that will try to find a new place to make a living, which undoubtedly could bring a lot of trouble in the years to come, if we don't start planning and acting RIGHT NOW. Otherwise the XXIst century will see a new kind of social breakdown: the climate wars, struggles that are the result of massive migration flows and the fights over the control of precious natural resources like clean water and farm land.
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
19 April 2007
5 days 9 hours
hi red,
it seems wild how nothing is being done or even mention about those countries which have double the population in last thirty years and continue to have these huge birth-rates while scientists have long speculated that the earths resources cant support that type of growth.
sometimes i wonder if big business doesnt care and are just looking for a larger population and thus a larger market to make profits and dont worry about the future and just care about bottom lines of the next decade or so.
in terms of flooding - they could move dirth-rocks-earth from canadas artic north shoreline and create a barrier around those huge cities )basically reallocating shoreline from one are not populated to another coastline prone for flooding that is heavily populated. or even dig huge trenchs in water and move the rock-earth to various sites deserts.
or even move icecaps - and store water in various locations and underground caverns. built dams at various freshwater rivers and move water elsewhere before it moves into oceans.
i am just stating a few examples of things that could be done. but lets face it - it costs money and when you got people like bush mention yesterday - he stated he wouldnt commit to limits on emmitions over economics. so they arent willing to do anything and with that approach - when they finally do wish to do something then they will probalby claim its do late and do nothing and admitt they were wrong and hope all it forgiven with the lifes and suffering they will have caused by all there pollution in air and water.
i think also alot of aging baby boomers have rsp and have quite abit of money and dont all have to rely on pensions.
although i believe there should be a global tax on these big polluters - for polluting more than there fair share of air space that leads to the deaths of so many. living in canada isnt a good thing when you live next to states and global warming trends brings there dirty air up and is killing so many. i think the problem comes from there believe that they believe they can pollute the air as much as they please regardless if its moving to other countries and killing them. they feel that they got the right to pollute more than there fair share of air space and bring pollution indexs in he red.
that global tax can be used to look for ways to clean the air, and ways of developing and maintain clear waters in the future. as well as monitor all types of pollution and waste sites in a responible matter thru out the globe.
12 April 2007
6 hours 17 min
When you say that big business and coporations are just looking for a quick profit and don't care about the future in the long term. In fact I do believe that's one of the main problems of mankind, our inability to see beyond our immediate needs and have the slightest concern for what kind of world we leave to the next generations. As long as we get to have all the things that TV advertises, the rest of the world can go to hell.
All the ideas you mentioned are the kind of things that ought to be done, but of course would probably mean either more taxes for citizens, or that the funds get diverted from other social programs, with the inevitable public outcry, something that politicians are not too eager to do, since they worry more about keeping their jobs and their ratings high than to do the right thing (the difference between a true stateman and a mere politician).
The fact that there are intelligent people out there that are not afraid of thinking about these problems is the thing that keeps me from despair :-)
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
4 December 2007
26 weeks 1 day
Global warming, ice ages and a plethora more planetary catastrophes have happened before we would be stupid and foolish to think it won't happen again (granted maybe not in our time on earth but really it could happen). Let's face it, extinction is part of evolution...in all likelihood humanity would probably find a way to survive but who really knows?
12 April 2007
6 hours 17 min
If our planet were completely devoid of dangers and disasters, intelligent life wouldn't have appeared. What would be the point? It takes a lot of energy and time to develop big brains.
Natural disasters and catastrophies that provoke mass extintions are the driving forces of evolution, putting the species to the test to see whether they are adaptable enough to survive new dramatic changes. Some are able and some become extinct.
Our ancestors were pretty happy swinging from tree to tree until climate changes turned the forests where they dwelled into savannahs, so they were forced to adapt. They changed their diet and from scavengers they become hunter-gatherers, the surpluss protein povoked an increase in cerebral mass, and so here we are.
People have this idea that our planet is an idillic paradise where the norm is to have mild pleasant weather, but the fact is that it's not. It is chaotic and the climate is uncontrollable, and the reason why we have been able to cope with those changes have been a)our intelligence which enables to adapt to changes much more quickly than any other species, and b)our ability to procreate in multiply in great numbers.
Only that things, as ciamarra has pointed out, are changing now that we have reached a point in history where our planet may not be able to sustain our numbers. Luckily we still have our intelligence, and it is by using it that we can escape the wheel of cyclical destruction that has ruled in our planet since life emerged.
God is not gentle. His lessons are harsh, but the rewards are limmitless.
We are living truly interesting times. Our problems are increasing day by day,but at the same time our level of knowledge and understanding of our place in the universe is also increasing almost exponentially; it's almost as if we have entered a phase of cultural over-drive, which could either bring our extinction by our own negligence, of a quantum leap that could produce a truly planetary civilization, and from that we will be able to launch ourselves to explore the stars.
It's an exciting time to be alive, that's for sure :-)
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie