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Science != Scientism

Interesting column from Vancouver Sun journalist Douglas Todd, titled “Scientism Infects Darwinian Debates.” There are some good points in there, although I’d also suggest that there is a difference between Darwinism, physicalism and scientism – and the first two are probably more pertinent when it comes to discussions of evolution. Equally interesting is the reaction from Phil ‘Bad Astronomy’ Plait:

It’s all too easy to poopoo science, and to say that scientists are black and white automatons who go through the motions of the scientific method, rejecting anything with sparkle or color or surprise. But that conclusion itself lacks imagination. Science is full of wonder, of surprise, of leaps of imagination. If it were anything else, we wouldn’t have probes orbiting other worlds, we wouldn’t have vaccinations capable of wiping out scourges like smallpox, we wouldn’t have digital cameras, the Internet, ever-faster computers, cars, planes, televisions.

I think Phil, and most of the commenters over there, appear to have missed the point…and it’s a common mistake. Attacking scientism is not an attack on science. Though if you think it is, then you might be veering into scientism yourself. Science is a wonderful tool, and we all embrace the advances that have been made through its use. However, just as you wouldn’t tell everyone that they can do everything at home with a hammer, those who take on the task of defending science risk alienating people be trying to impose science on all other areas. That’s scientism, it does happen, and that’s what Todd is referring to.

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  1. I agree, but i think its a
    I agree, but i think its a very fine line between drawing attention to areas of over assertion of scientific principles and attacking the perfectly reasonable extension of scientific principles. Often because identifying where this is occurring is not best done by lay people, who tend to use the weakest form of this argument by simply selecting where they would prefer an over extension to exist, rather than where one does.

    It is easy to stray outside of science in this debate and into philosophy, but it isnt clear that this is beneficial to actually identifying the places where this is occurring. For anything to happen other than hiding within the philosophy the individual occurrences must be tackled.

    Take evolution and the soul for example. It is often claimed that the application of evolution is scientism, especially when it comes to the human body and mind.

    On one side we have the vast amount of evidence from the biological record across species as well as genetic evidence, especially from embryonic development of nervous systems, fossil record evidence and now neurological evidence from brain anatomy and surgery as well as f-mri evidence of brain function, stroke victim evidences and brain damage, and to a lesser degree brain modeling and artificial neural network development, the list goes on. Plus now there is a growing understanding of emotionality in the brain, what correlates with it and how to affect it for better or worse. All testifying to the evolution of ‘mind’.

    On the opposite side we have the claim that using this to say that ‘mind’ occurs in the brain is ‘scientism’.

    There is evidence that weird stuff is going on, but without understanding of the weird stuff there is little to build an argument from.

    If out of body experiences are the brain responding to electromagnetic fields from other places, or gravity, or something unknown that doesnt require our minds to leave our bodies. If consciousness is quantum and confined to the brain like electricity in a wire and is fuzzy because of entanglement producing the experiences of telepathy, NDE’s and OBE’s but still confining the mind to the brain. If consciousness is part of the brains neural network and is completely unmysterious- completely materialistic and telepathy and NDE and OBE experiences just happen in a different way, but without offering us life after death. If ghosts are not what some people think and are fragments of people from the future when some colossal weapon or spacial affect has fractured time, or they are aliens trying to communicate in a way that our limited minds translate as dead people. If divination is the result of quantum information traveling backwards through time. Or if a million other possibilities are the correct answer.

    The only way to know is to test ideas and see what happens. Accusing the extension of any scientific principle of being ‘scientism’ can only be identified by comparing evidence. The problem is that often people are not arguing this way.

    Drawing attention to ‘scientism’ is surely just as important as drawing attention to ‘religionism’ or ‘spiritualism’ism’. Hopefully anyone arguing this type of argument will have some evidence to support why they are doing it.

  2. where, oh where is certainty to be found?
    “We have found a strange footprint on the shores of the unknown. We have devised profound theories, one after another, to account for its origins. At last, we have succeeded in reconstructing the creature that made the footprint. And lo! It is our own.”

    –A S Eddington, Space, Time and Gravitation (1920)

    I think what is still not grokked by sombunall sentients is the notion that any statement we make aboot universe has our mark on it so to speak. We can’t separate ourselves from our environment totally. I think that is one of the ‘things’ that Quantum Mechanics ‘says’.

    That, coupled with a natural anxiety over uncertainty/chaos, the reactions are completely understandable.

    Complete certainty is not to be found anywhere. Any frame of reference excludes some aspect of universe and is false to some other frame of reference.

    When we mistake the frame for the picture…watch out!

    The best situation, I think, is to be able to parse other frames of reference. To try them on and see what becomes ‘tuned-in’. Life as art instead of life as engineering.

    1. I agree that this approach
      I agree that this approach has some wisdom, but i think it works best as a philosophy for cultures in general instead of knowledge.

      Acceptance of uncertainty is a part of wisdom. Although to apply it properly is to see that there is uncertainty in applying that statement as well.

      The frame of reference applied will be human, but the two should be intertwined of course. Knowledge should change the frame of reference. We can either let our imaginations define the frame of reference, or we can let our successes define it as well, then try and combine the two into culture.

      Uncertainty is a humbling thing, but all to often it is treated unfaithfully. It is not uncertainty if it is just used to bash successful ideas and bolster ideas we would like to be true. Nothing can be argued using uncertainty. It can only be used as a reminder that something might be false.

      In this sense it is less useful. It doesnt tell us what we have got wrong. The argument itself contains no real data, just a philosophical point. Albeit a correct one.

      To be fairly applied it must always be used evenhandedly to all ideas that claim certainty, but at the same time it must be proportional to knowledge.

      If used properly to address the creationist and geological views of the age of the earth then the correct conclusion is that the 4.65 billion year old date has low uncertainty, whereas the 6000 year old date has extremely high uncertainty. Ideas can then be ranked based on uncertainty in the normal way. This idea is not new of course.

      I think it is more of a public relations issue between science and the public. The media and television often misreport certainty and any scientist knows nothing is certain, but any attempt to not weigh different uncertainties is dishonest. That is what the game is all about.

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